User talk:Foggy

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Please add the Attack Messages to Talk:Player Hit Messages for now - we haven't decided how this new info will be incorporated into the Wiki. Thanks --Gymnosophist 00:41, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

Lumpy Critical

Did Lumpy's critical hit do any elemental damage? Also, roughly how much did it hurt? (Eek! Ouch! or Eek! Ugh! Argh!) --Quietust 09:13, 15 September 2006 (CDT)

  • None. I don't have the damage, but isn't monster damage independent of the message? --Foggy
    • It is, but we always include the "Ouch!" messages, just to make them stand out. --Quietust 10:03, 15 September 2006 (CDT)

Use of int()

Hello. I have noticed that you are changing rounding formulae on familiar pages to use the int() function, instead of saying "rounding down" or floor(). I would like to point out that type-casting to an integer is probably less well-known than even the floor() function, and thus can be more confusing to the average KoL player. Consistency is always good, but we have to be sure our constants are good ones. Perhaps we could link "int" to a small KolWiki page that defines its meaning (i.e., that it rounds down).

Familiar spading

re: your question on my discussion page, I like to get at least 100 rounds of data per weight, whenever it's feasible. (easy on a combat orbeginning-of-combat familiar, not so easy on end-of-combat ones, at least at the lighter weights). --Hellion 16:12, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

No Worries

I was adventuring in The Haunted Conservatory with a Lime and no effects other than the No Worries. I might have added wrong... multiple times... or something like that. It probably is +3, but I'm pretty sure I got +4. My clan doesn't have a Jukebox anymore so I can't really check right now. I removed the message about +4. We really should see if it's level dependent or not. --CG1:t,c,e 18:08, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Effect Help

Thanks for sending me a message. Could you tell me how to send messages please? I wanted to write you back and say that I totally screwed up a page because I couldn't do the effectid# (which then messed up the page of the item you got the effect from). I'd like to fix all this but your good advice about the soft green echo eyedrop antidote is not possible at the moment because I'm a level 7 Hardcore on finding this information. I'm total wiki newb :(--Barata 21:39, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

Initiative Spading

Neat technique. You might want to add it to the spading page. --TechSmurf 13:37, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

I will. Right now I'm testing a few other effects as negative initiative modifiers (Black Face specifically).--Foggy 15:22, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

One other effect to verify is +ML itself. I've got a bit of information up, but have tiny sample sizes.-QuantumNightmare 15:26, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

With Blackface? That should be easy enough to check.--Foggy 15:29, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

Oh no, verify how +ML lowers initiative. It seems like +1ML lowers your initiative chances by 1% over and above the decreased initiative chances caused by making the term min(0,player mainstat - monster ML) smaller.-QuantumNightmare 15:36, 19 April 2008 (CDT)

I tried a dreadlock whip (+10ML) and buoybottoms & Amulet of Yendor. That gives me -40%, plus the +10ML. No change in my ability to run away. At -45% + dreadlock, I can still run away, at -50% + dreadlock, I can't.--Foggy 09:42, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

  • At +50ML, I can get the jump on bunnies. At +55ML, I don't get the jump on bunnies. At +45ML and the MCD set at 10 (total of +55), I can get the jump on bunnies. Looks like running away and getting the jump are calculated somewhat differently. Testing done with base mainstat of 0.--QuantumNightmare 10:16, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

The extra ML is likely having an effect on the formula for getting the jump on the monster, without actually changing the player's initiative. (One of the reasons that I chose to test initiative by running away is that the formula for it is pretty simply, and pans out with equipment with stated initiative modifiers.) But much like mainstat has no effect on running away, it's likely the extra ML doesn't affect running away, just getting the jump.

Incidentally, i think I've finished up on initiative spading for now...I tested outfits that have no known effect and found only the 8-bit and tapered had a boost; the outfits I can't test are the first crimbo outfit, and the radio free regalia. --Foggy 11:27, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

  • Probably. Although I'm curious about the 50% initiative number you've shown, bunnies seem to have a base 45% chance of getting the jump on players. Either way - I see potential for a large-scale project here as well, having players collect logs in a given zone and attempt to run away every turn. Your running away method would solve a big problem with initiative testing, but I'd first like to get the 45%/50% issue settled. Once the theory is done, the results from player logs can be parsed and initiative information can be collected for every monster. Anything to add to this? Should default testing be done with any negative initiative modifiers to increase sample size, or to counter the effects of the two passives? I'd like to add this as a sub-project of the new Monster Stat data collection.--QuantumNightmare 12:22, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

This probably won't help, but one of the characters I'm using had a PoNE (Point of No Escape) with the bunnies at 50, and a PoNE with the beanbat at 60. What doesn't make sense is that if the beanbat is faster (reported init of 60, as opposed to 45), then why would the PoNe be higher? (It's madness! Madness!). It is possible that the inits have changed since the HCO's initiative project, but I think someone would need to verify what the init is on the beanbat and rabbits forward (that is, looking at how often they get the jump on a player).--Foggy 16:27, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

Delevel hats

I finally noticed that the hatrack table lists all the deleveling hats in terms of effective barrrnacle weight, and you're the only one on the talk page who did any spade work on the deleveling. Does this mean you know the current formulas for the barrrnacle (familiar)? The page is still requesting that the formulas be updated for the long-ago update that "the barrrnacle now sucks twice as hard". Seems like this should be known by somebody somewhere by now. And, in a related matter, did you happen to spade/keep track of the activation rates for those hats? If that's exactly like a barrrnacle, too, then the hatrack table is fine as is; but I was wondering if that's known to be true or not. --Flargen 21:02, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

The current formula on the barrrnacle is correct. I didn't keep track of the activation rate, but I can try to get those for a few of the hats and see if they line up.--Foggy 08:47, 4 May 2008 (CDT)


  • something about Fuzzy Dice breaks this template. --Evilkolbot 20:33, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
    • It was the linebreaks. --Quietust (t|c) 20:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
      • My bad...first template I've work with in a while.--Foggy 20:56, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Spectral Pickle Factory monsters

I'm getting exactly 180 HP for all of them (dwarvish mattock) - are you really getting 186?--Ryo_Sangnoir 19:03, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

  • That's what I was getting from the dwarven mattock and seal tooth.--Foggy 20:05, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
    • Damn...just reread and the war mattock description. I was counting from the wrong number. So yes, all the pickle factory monsters should have been 180, and the TPTB's butts should have been 52.--Foggy 22:58, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed through outside sources

You mentioned this on a few of the wine pages. What source is this? — Cool12309 (talk) 01:32, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Someone involved in the game who responded to a bug report/question I submitted about Refined Palate and whether or not it was working or not. They confirmed that low yield wines wouldn't appear to have an effect and also that several boozes were misclassified. I just don't want to be specific about who in the game gave me that information so they aren't being pestered with other questions like this.-Foggy (talk) 12:38, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Item Drop Rate Spading

I hope you're accounting for +item%. You seem to just be doing dropped/total. — Cool12309 (talk) 16:07, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Of course. I'm ensuring a 0% +item% before for each run.-Foggy (talk) 16:24, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
    • That's not a very efficient way to getting item drop rates. You want to run as much +item% as you possibly can without maxing out the item(s) you are finding the rates of. This reduces the error margins substantially. It will take you thousands of observations to still get fairly large error margins at +0%, when running near this maximum will get you very small error margins within hundreds (except for very low drop rates, but even then you're still done much, much faster). You're basically doing it the way Yiab was doing it. Don't do that. Do it like I did. We have very accurate information about +item bonuses now, which Yiab did not have at the time (and so he avoided most of them due to the uncertainty). Make use of them. --Flargen (talk) 05:13, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
      • I understand what you're saying, but the character I'm using for this can't achieve the levels of item drop that would be necessary to make this work (I can get 174.71 with just equipment and Hound Dog, BuffBots could clearly get me further with Fat Leon, Chorale, and Empathy, but for the more commonly found stuff in Storage, I'd need 566%.). In terms of time, it will take longer to get the results, but the character does nothing but idle anyway, and it takes about 10 minutes to run through the adventures.-Foggy (talk) 16:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
        • Awise! Even +174.71% is a substantial improvement in efficiency, and it's entirely reasonable to let meat costs play a role: get as high as you can without forcing yourself bankrupt. Seriously, run the numbers. If the base drop rate is 20%, then +174.71% items gives you a standard error of about .1811/sqrt(N), whereas with +0% your error term is .4/sqrt(N). That's a ratio of 2.208, so the 0% requires about 4.88 times as many data points to obtain the same precision. So what might take a month at 0% is done in a matter of days at +174.71%. And you'll be spending much more than a month on most things at 0%, so this builds up quickly. Of course if you're not even doing this any more then this is all academic, but people should know! --Flargen (talk) 07:33, 16 October 2014 (UTC)


While I understand you wanting to add these, I'm pretty sure that, save for a few exceptions, they're all generated by terrain and recommended stat. It seems no one has bothered to spade them, but I think once we do we can add a thing that automagically generates the turtle that should be there and allow an override for the few exceptions. — Cool12309 (talk) 16:05, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

  • There are clearly rules regarding what turtles come up (giraffe-necked/irradiated are only in outdoor zones, hedgeturtles are only in high-stat zones), but no one is bothering to spade them, and the list on Turtle Taming needs verification. My goal right now is just to confirm, and list turtles as I come across them.-Foggy (talk) 16:13, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
    • Okay, to be more blunt, I don't want to have to do more work by undoing all your turtle data pages, so add them to some page somewhere instead so I have less to revert. — Cool12309 (talk) 16:39, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
      • I'll be blunt as well. When I first starting working on the wiki again, one of the first things I discovered were a large number (over 40) of broken links to an April Fools' Day redirect you had deleted because you insist on all redirects being lowercase. So I'm not overly swayed by an argument that you might feel like what I'm doing will be onerous for you in the undefined future. For now, I've added on Turtle Taming how the default Turtle Taming adventures are behaving, and if you want to bring home the spading on that, I'll go ahead and replace the static turtle taming tags on Location pages.-Foggy (talk) 16:52, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Ed bandages

Unless they've changed in the past couple weeks, the various bandages available to Ed heal for double the listed range when used out of combat. --timrem (talk) 16:06, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I caught that when I went to do linen bandages. I've gone back and reverted the change to the range, but kept the See Also seciton.-Foggy (talk) 16:34, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


Hi Foggy,

im working on parts spading with some external data as well as the wiki, noticed that Lord Spookyraven is missing parts. But he doesnt show up in the unknown parts category. Its possible theres a parsing error on his data template, i can't see anything wrong though if you could take a look. Discordance (talk) 19:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC) --Sorry I missed this earlier. Not sure why that was happening...right now, I'm spending some time in an ascension closing out some things on my checklist for Dreads, Hobopolis, and Slimetube. At some point, I want to get a checklist going where I can double-check parts to see what's missing, but that's for a future day.--Foggy (talk) 14:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I figured it out, for some reason there was a template option explicitly turning off auto-categories. I'm not sure why that was ever enabled as most of the cats are for parts. In the ass discord I have been keeping track of a checklist of wiki spading marking off what me and you had gotten to I also have my own data project where I imported the parts from the wiki and a mafia script called excavator and cleaned up based on the differences there. The parts data from that has now made it into mafia as a datafile that excavator now looks for divergences from I have a dread-runner contact working on the Dread bosses, they should finish those up soon. So will just be the Drip, the remaining path bosses, URs, and then trying to find any missing parts from pre-darts. Discordance (talk) 15:22, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
In that case, I won't sweat the Dread stuff. I've got my own checklist of Dreads stuff I need to do, and I've completed certain bosses in terms of factoids and items. I'll probably take a stab at Drippy tomorrow, as I've never gone into that area and need some factoids and other things,--Foggy (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2024 (UTC)