Template talk:Plural/archive

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Okay, Someone needs to go through this and clean out unnecessary discussions, but I'm not qualified enough to do it. --Unnatural20 03:38, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

General Discussion

Is is feasible to add the list of items that need to be zapped to this page? That list is also limited by people not having access to rares, so maybe we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone. --Arthas 15:17, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Nope, not really. This is the plural page, adding zapping just makes it confusing. After we are done with plurals we can move on to zapping and stick an announcement on the main page.--SomeStranger (t|c) 15:24, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
Ah ok, makes sense. Also, when we find a plural, we change it, but someone else has to try it to add their name to the 'Confirmed by' column, correct?--Arthas 15:48, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

When Crovax was in his pulverize everything phase, I could have sworn he told me that stainless teel and plexiglass rewards were unsmashable. --Ashallond 00:53, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

Nope. As tested when ultimate wads were being figured out. Phlip 03:46, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

I'm glad I can help. Sometimes I have nothing to add to the wikikol. --Fernando Bono 13:51, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Okay. Now that this exists one of two things needs to happen. Either everyone should come back once a day and add ten items to the template, or Quietust can go on one of his sprees and add them all. Your choice. :)--SomeStranger (t|c) 17:42, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

  • I'm busy enough with the Template:Item rollout, so you'll have to do this yourselves. --Quietust 16:20, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

We would do well to put items in by their number... I will do a few when I remember, but if we go by number, user participation will be made easier...--Vimes177 19:32, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

As a reminder to all, we don't need those items made plural by adding an "s". Instead add to the list at the bottom of the page that contains all items which are made plural by adding an "s". As a side note sorting by number is a BAD idea, as it would only make it that much harder to find out if an item is already done. Scratch that, let's order by number.--SomeStranger (t|c) 19:42, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Now that all of the items have been added, alphabetical order is a lot easier to manage. --Quietust 12:16, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

The search engine gives 101 matches for the word plural, about 95 of which are probably the plurals of items. We could slap those in there, but I'm sure there's plenty the wiki's currently missing.--Dehstil (t|c) 21:07, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

KoLMafia's plural .dat (though all lowercase) --JRSiebz (|§|) 21:23, 20 June 2006 (CDT)


It's much easier to parse if the 'items which are made plural by adding an "s"' list was also included in the numeric list... --Vimes177 22:59, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Why? Wouldn't it be easier just to check to see if it has a special plural and then if not, just add an "s"? --JRSiebz (|§|) 17:38, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
    • One nice option would be to have it add in a link back to this template if it finds one it doesn't recognize, though I don't think it'll be possible to embed that within the template itself. Perhaps some extra logic in Template:Acquire can manage that. --Quietust 16:20, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
      • There, added it to Acquire, so we can now get reasonably correct-looking plural item acquisition messages; incorrect ones will simply have an extra * afterwards (which would be easy enough to throw in parens) which links back to this page. --Quietust 16:29, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

I'd write a script to check the plurals of all the items in my inventory, but my computers been evil me this past week or so. Plus, hardcore oxy = less access to items. Perhaps we could do that though, automate some of this.--Dehstil (t|c) 17:52, 21 June 2006 (CDT)


What should we do with quest items? You can't GET more than one of the dolphin king's map, and so you can never know the plural...--Vimes177 15:09, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

  • If you can't get a plural amount of an item, then you don't need to know what the plural is. We could either ignore those, display an error like "plural unknown", or just guess: a sensible plural for dolphin king's map is dolphin king's maps.--Dehstil (t|c) 15:21, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
    • There's also the remote possibility that we might be able to bribe one of the devs into giving us a reasonably complete list (most likely with gaps, so as to not spoil the hilarious plurals on custom items)... --Quietust 15:40, 26 June 2006 (CDT)


I think I'm ready to take the dive and farm THREE animal skeletons. One for my own use and two to autosell to find its plural. Wish me luck - Duo

After I get pulverize and ascend, I'll work on pulverizing multiples of anything you don't have. I'll try to do this fast. SmittyBoy 07:04, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

|1?

What exactly is the purpose of the extra |1 parameter in here, which appears to force the item into being singular? Was this intended to take an item count to allow this template to handle singulars as well? If so, it's really not needed, since the singular case is already handled within Template:Acquire (and will need to stay in there, since it decides whether or not to show "an item: "). --Quietust 10:48, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

  • After examining its usage, that appears to have been the entire point (which is completely useless), so I've removed it. This should run slightly faster now. I've also removed the Plural2 part and moved that to Template:Acquire/plural for simplicity. --Quietust 11:15, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

How do you edit plurals?

I'm a relatively new Wiki user and I can't seem to figure out how to make changes to update plurals. When I click on 'plural' it takes me to the list of all the plurals, but I can't edit it. Any tips?--Arthas 07:12, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Hit edit at the top of the page, scroll down to the one you want to change, and change it. Don't click to the [edit] link next to the "Code" header - you'll just get the template that adds the code box to the page... which isn't where all the actual code is... kinda confusing, but there you go. Phlip 07:05, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Thanks, that helped. I appreciate it. Now to find out some plurals.--Arthas 16:01, 4 July 2006 (CDT)


Returning a link

  • Should an option like {{plural|herb brownies|link}} be added so that it may return "[[herb brownies|piles of herb brownies]]" instead of just the plain text "piles of herb brownies"? --JRSiebz (|§|) 22:50, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Plural/autolink works perfectly for the job, I thought.--Dehstil (t|c) 23:16, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
    • I didn't know that even existed, as it is not mentioned in the usage instructions/examples on this template's page. Seems counter-intuitive too, instead of being an option on this template, it's a separate alltogether template someone has to hunt down. --JRSiebz (|§|) 23:07, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
      • Just to answer this old question, the reason is because the link markup cannot be placed within the parserfunction that would be necessary to make it conditional. In order to make the link conditional, the link needs to be added by an external source (i.e. {{plural}}).

Methods of Determining Plurality

  • I know of two instances where you get the plural of an item: 1) Where two or more are generated (through Meatsmithing, or whatever), and 2) Where recieved from another player in a message. Are there any more that I can't think of? If more than one of an item can't be generated at a time, and that item is not transferrable, are there any other ways to determine what an item's plural is? Take, for example, the Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle. How on earth did anybody figure out the plural of that? --Iason 18:06, 4 July 2006 (CDT)
    • The other way is to transfer 2 items into one's Clan Stash, but that again does not work with nontradeable items. Your Colossal Closet and Display Case bypass the plural form, instead saying "singular name (quantity)". Regarding the monocle, I would be very interested to know how the plural form was determined, or if it was simply assumed by somebody who wanted to fill in the record (in which case all previous records filled by that user would be invalidated)... --Quietust 18:19, 4 July 2006 (CDT)
      • Does that mean, then that (short of an excellent explaination from whomever) the monacle and all other non-craftable, non-transferable items ought to be a "!"? --Iason 20:19, 4 July 2006 (CDT)
    • You can autosell two of an item, or buy two of an item from a store. For items like the badass belt, you could carry a badass belt over from one ascension, then untinker two of them and meat paste two of them together again. --Shima 20:36, 4 July 2006 (CDT)***Ugh. Do you mean to tell me that somebody's got to go and autosell 2 Baron's Monacles, and all the other moderately rare stuff you can only get max once per ascention? That sucks. I heretofore nominate somebody other than me. --Iason 20:57, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
      • You can only autosell an item if it doesn't say "Cannot be discarded". --Quietust 22:17, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Uh-oh. It appears that you can determine an item's plurality by pulverizing more than one of them. Since you can pulverize things that you can't craft, trade, or autosell, it appears that some of the !s (including ones that I put in there) are determinable, after all. Even our exemplar, Baron von's Monacle. Once again, I nominate somebody richer to do the destroying-of-precious-artifacts. (Actually, I'd be happy to do the pulverizing, just not the buying. -grin-) --Iason 00:43, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Technically, you can't buy that sort of stuff - if you want to be able to pulverize it, you need to earn it. --Quietust 08:58, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
      • Of course. -smacks forehead- I had enough Disco 'Fro Picks to verify, but that's it. --Iason 11:24, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

You can buy stuff from you own store, so that could be a way to find a plural of an item without cost, if it can be traded. --Crowther 16:10, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

  • I'm trying to think of a way to determine the plurality of the gloomy black mushroom and the oily golden mushroom, but I got nothing. If nobody can think of anything, I'll go ahead and mark them appropriately. --Iason 08:42, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
    • There doesn't appear to be a way to determine these. --Quietust 10:44, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Is there any way to determine goofballs? I just bought two of them, and there's no "use multiple" on them, and you can only buy one at a time. --Shima 16:16, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
      • Nope, not with the current display case and closet functionality. --Quietust 16:28, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

To summarize, item plurals can only be determined under any of the following circumstances:

  • The item is tradeable, so you can receive 2 at once from another player (most items)
  • The item has an autosell price, so you can autosell 2 of them at once (most items)
  • The item is a piece of equipment that can be pulverized AND which you can get more than one of - this rules out any items created after White Wednesday; anything beforehand could have been duplicated using one's display case (includes MCD drops)
  • The item can be obtained by untinkering another item which you can have 2 of at a time (batskin belt, dragonbone belt buckle)
  • The item can be created using a recipe, and you can have more than one of each ingredient at a time (badass belt)

Until the devs add plural displays to Display Case transfers, anything else is indeterminate. --Quietust 12:36, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Bazfum, what method did you use to determine the plurality of the brick? It fits none of the criteria above . . . --Iason 08:26, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

If an item is tradable, you can easily determine the plural even if you only have one. Go to your store, and select the item, as if you were adding it to your store. Instead of a "1", though, enter a number that is larger than the number you have. The error you get will say "You don't have 2 bowls of pr0n chow mein" or whatever, and it won't add the 1 to the store. Quadell 11:10, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Nice find. Unfortunately, it only works with tradeable items that you actually have - try to give it something you don't have (or can't trade) and it'll simply ignore it (displaying "None of the items you selected were eligible for sale in the mall. Tsk tsk." if ALL of the items you tried to put up were invalid). --Quietust 09:08, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Uhh, guys, doesn't pulling stuff from Hagnk's give you the plural? It does for at least that new "pull stuff for free" dropdown. --Ricket 11:56, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Nope - "item name (count) moved from storage to inventory" or something similar. The brick pulling option is apparently unique in this respect. --Quietust 12:02, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Actually, it may be possible after all to determine the plurality of items by pulling items from hagnks. I'm running a lot of Greasemonkey Scripts and just noticed that using Picklish's Hagnk Helper appears to get the items in the plural form. Here's a screenshot. Unfortuantely, I didn't have any of the untradable/unable to acquire more than one of at a time items in hagnks but this should be a way to determine the plurality of many items previously thought impossible. Items such as Time Juice or the ninja pirate zombie robot should be able to be determined this way. Not to mention it would be much easier to find out about the stainless stell/plexiglass items this way instead of pulverizing. --TheDotGamer 00:22, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
      • A tip for future reference – if you can't see information normally, but you can with a GM script, then the information comes from that script, not the game itself. Any plural information you get from a script isn't necessarily accurate... and if we can't find out the plural of something, then Picklish couldn't have known it either... so he couldn't have added to the script, and thus it won't show it ingame, with the script or without. If you look at the script you'll see it pulls all the info from this list – and you'll notice that that list doesn't have the plural of Time Juice, among other things... Phlip 10:15, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
        • I would not be surprised if Picklish pulled all that information from the wiki and used the same methodology (if data is missing then add "s") that we do for dealing with incomplete items. --SomeStranger (t|c) 12:56, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Yeah, whoops, I should have thought a little bit more about that one. I briefly browsed the script beforehand to see if there was a list of all the items in it but didn't see one... I didn't look for a link. I for some reason just thought that he had access to some function that would display the plural... but then again, if it were that easy I'm sure someone else would have found it by now. --TheDotGamer
  • As soon as my current run is over I will happily provide all of the plurals for SS items except Scarf through pulverize as well as the plural for Plexi pants adn the plural for Cape of the Goblin king. I assume the list of unknown plurals is up to date, as otherwise I'm going to feel sort of silly for smashing my shiny toys.--Scalebane 10:10, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
  • Oddly enough, I am quite willing to pulverize my scarves, so that should get the SSS items out of the way. --Unnatural20 03:38, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

What The?

Oh, my dear lord, what have I done? Check out my revision today. I swear, all I did was change the "?" to "!" for boss bat britches and bling. Did somehow my browser load an old version or somesuch? Is there some easy way to undo a revision altogether? If not, I'll go back and re-fix them all . . . --Iason 17:55, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Phew. Thanks, Quietust. I'll be much more careful from now on. --Iason 19:02, 9 July 2006 (CDT)

Old Reagent Potions

Why does alarming strawberry juice have an !, while arse-a'fire actually states what it used to be? There's a bit of inconsistency here. --Someone Else 10:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Good question - it should end with *! (just putting at the end ! looks odd); ones that are completely unknown can stay with just "!". --Quietust 10:44, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

I recently used 7 penultimate fantasy chests at once, and it said that I received, among other things,:

11 phonics down (that is not even funny)

I have never seen that before, what's so not funny about it? I am lost...--Hannaghator 23:22, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

  • gma = equippable = pulverisable = ? = $100 --Evilkolbot 17:01, 3 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Mr. Store items can't be pulverized - Crovax1234 tried and they didn't even show up in the list. I believe he tried with iceberglet stuff, Jekyllin hide belt, wizard hat, as well as Mr./Ms. Accessory [Jr.] - presumably, the Golden Mr. Accessory is also included. --Quietust 17:04, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

Since this template is mostly filled in....

  • Since this template is mostly filled in, should we protect it. Everytime this template gets edited, the thousands of pages using it have to batch update themselves. Recently a lot of n00b users - not paying attention - have just guessed many of the missing entries anyway, not bothering to read the introduiction on the top of this template. Should be implement something like the following ({{prot_high-use}} maybe?) for this template (and maybe any others in this same "situation")? That way the 10 or so admins could add new items (as they come out) in batches, reducing the total amount of edits made to this tempate, plus unknown plurals can always be discussed/listed on this talk page. At least none of this wiki's pages have been mentioned on the Colbert Report. ;-) P.S. The image is Public Domain, from the Open Clipart Library, which Wikipedia uses, and then I resized/shrunk it. --JRSiebz (|§|) 22:14, 6 August 2006 (CDT)
padlockkp0.png This high-use template has been protected from editing to prevent inaccurate edits and/or vandalism. Please discuss changes on the talk page, and to ask an administrator to make an edit for you.
  • I approve 100%, though perhaps it might be better to create a single page to monitor requests regarding all applicable templates so we don't have to monitor all of them individually. --Quietust 00:02, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
    • WIkipedia has a list of protected pages, well, now so we.  ;-) --JRSiebz (|§|) 01:05, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
      • We now have  5  6 active admins on the wiki so I think maintaining a requests list would not be so hard. I say lets do it. --SomeStranger (t|c) 12:53, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Okay now we have 6 admins, protection time. --SomeStranger (t|c) 23:14, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Template:Item/plural should be updated to point to this discussion/contribution page instead of the template body. --Jonrock 17:27, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Done. It might be a good idea to archive this content to leave this talk page entirely for additions of new items. --Quietust 15:29, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Actually, how about Plural or its talk space there? It seems more intuitive to me. It could describe what plurals are, how to obtain them, and (possibly on the talk page) how to request additions, etc.--Dehstil (t|c) 17:47, 15 August 2006 (CDT)
  • I don't know if this is a one off thing, but when I purchased 3 Hot Hi Meins it said just that. "You acquire 3 hot hi meins". It might not say the Hawt bit anymore, and it's locked so I can't fix it. --Jonzay 01:45, 21 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Unfortuantly this doesn't seem to have been updated in a while as several easy items (such as Dishrags) have yet to have their plurals entered. - Duo
  • It was updated yesterday...if you were to witness how much lag changing this template even a little bit causes the wiki you would understand why we decided to run this page the way we do. I was planning on updating it again tomorrow if no one else did, give it time :). (And check the edit history of the main template before claiming that we don't update)--SomeStranger (t|c) 21:50, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Other Comments

Baskets of Fruit

I just used three items at once, and was told:

You dump out the baskets of fruit (and brush away all the bugs. Yech.)

It did not say fruits basket.

  • That's because item use messages don't put in the plural form, only acquire messages (and stuff that deals with the Mall - see the list above). --Quietust 18:24, 28 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm confused

I understand why the list was locked, but my comment about boxen being the plural of box is gone without a change to the template or a rebuttal here and I'm not going to check each and every change to find who deleted my comment. If I find my talk page comments deleted like this again, I'll find another way to spend my time. --Crowther 23:12, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

  • Plural corrections don't go at the bottom of this talk page - they get added to the appropriate table near the top, and once they're moved into the template itself, they get deleted to make room for others. If everybody's contributions were left in here with credits, this page would be unmanageably long. The reason the template itself is locked is because every time it gets edited, it causes the entire site to lag significantly for several minutes. Sorry, but them's the breaks - if you don't like it, you're under no obligation to participate. --Quietust 23:43, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
  • Oh, and had you actually been paying attention, you would have noticed that the plural for box was changed to boxen during the batch update earlier today. --Quietust 23:58, 20 October 2006 (CDT)