Talk:Yendorian Finery

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No Pants

  • do we really need both no pants references? --Evilkolbot 13:25, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Yup. -Deveiel 07:33, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Increased Damage in Dungeon of Doom?

  • I used a weapon with the same amount of power as the vorpal blade and found no increase in the damage I could inflict to monsters in "the dungeon of doom" as opposed to when I was wearing the entire outfit.--UglyPanda 13:04, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
  • I am still collecting data, but noticing the same thing...does anyone have data to support the increased damage, and if yes, could you please share the details? Thanks.--Mis2027 16:08, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

Testing for increased damage

Muscle is 136. Equipment for "no outfit" testing is cornuthaum and vorpal blade, no other equipment and no relevant buffs. Not counting critical hits.

No outfit Outfit
112 110
121 114
107 108
113 105
111 113
110 114
111 111
110 111
109 109
116 113
111 108
115 105
111 108
116 108
109 104
116 112
109 108

Average without outfit: 112.17

Average with outfit: 109.47

So even with a small sample size like this, it appears the outfit does diddly-squat in terms of increased damage in the DoD. --TechSmurf 19:01, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

I would like to point out the fact that you never accounted for the +ML given by the ring. Your data is flawed.--Pixel Knight 16:09, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

I did extensive testing using multiple methods to control for monster level, as well as all other modifiers (I made sure to have no buffs, have the same number of accessories, matched power, matched stats, etc.), and also saw absolutely no effect of the outfit on monster damage. I think it's safe to believe the outfit does NOT increase damage against DoD monsters.--Mis2027 06:54, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Outfit Effect vs. Parts

The temporarily listed Outfit Effect of +3 Myst, +3 Mox is entirely attributable to the Cornuthaum, and thus not an outfit effect.--Mis2027 13:12, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Likely not item drop

I had previously done research on the Finery and found that Item Drop was not increased in the Treasury nor in The Dungeons of Doom by this outfit.--Mis2027 19:40, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

Combat Frequency

As mentioned in the References on the main article, in NetHack, engraving "Elbereth" is protective against being attacked. On this premise, I tested whether Yendorian Finery vs. a comparable outfit would alter Combat Frequency in the Treasury. Without the Finery, 8 of 80 adventures were non-combat, and with it 11 of 80 adventures were non-combat. Since all Combat Frequency modifiers have a 5% magnitude, this is consistent, but further testing should be done by others to confirm the effect.--Mis2027 15:21, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I'll give it a try with a couple of my accounts. 80 isn't a pretty big sample size though...--Foggy 16:46, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

I tried with one character, spending 200 adventures in the Dungeons of Dooms. I got a 62% combat frequency without, 64% with. At such a low number of adventures, this seems like a standard deviation.--Foggy 05:52, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

More promising...a second character had 67% combat frequency without, 75% with...a more noticeable difference. As a disclaimer, this character had the vorpal blade and ring of aggravate monster equipped, without the cornuthaum. The first character I tested (above) went naked on his first trip.--Foggy 08:29, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

So of course looking back at my results, one would notice that my last post contradicts what Mis2027 was finding; namely that one of my characters appeared to have an increased combat frequency with the uniform on.

Combat Frequency, Ongoing Testing

total number of adventures: 400
N per condition: 200 (100 each day)
location: Treasury
character: Brian of Loathing, Level 18 Disco Bandit
date: Saturday, August 4, 2007 / Frankruary 6 - and - Tuesday, August 7, 2007 / Starch 1

buffs active throughout the research: Polka of Plenty, Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Jackasses' Symphony of Destruction, Elemental Saucesphere, Jalapeño Saucesphere, Jabañero Saucesphere, Scarysauce, Reptilian Fortitude, Tenacity of the Snapper, Astral Shell, Ghostly Shell, Empathy

Ballroom song: Sono Un Amanten Non Un Combattente was likely playing

equipment (all times): Cornuthaum, Grateful Undead T-shirt, Bounty-hunting pants, Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, Zinc Delta of Tranquility, Ring of aggravate monster

familiar (all times): Baby Gravy Fairy with Eye-pod equipped

equipment, experimental conditon only: Vorpal blade (i.e. Yendorian Finery)
equipment, control condition only: Kneecapping stick
note: both weapons are 1-handed melee weapons, power 90, and both increase critical hit chance

non-combat encounter frequency, control: 20.5% (95-percent confidence interval 14.4-26.6%)
non-combat encounter frequency, Finery: 27.5% (95-percent confidence interval 20.6-34.4%)
chi-square p-value: 0.014
Fisher exact test p-value: 0.128
chi-square p-value for 5% increase: 0.516
Fisher exact test p-value for 5% increase: 0.734

CONCLUSION: I feel these data support a 5% increase in non-combat encounter frequency, but acknowledge the data are limited to a single character in a single zone. Additional testing is warranted (for which I will try to contribute) in additional zones and on other characters.

--Mis2027 12:53, 4 August 2007 (CDT)
--Mis2027 15:21, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Sonofa Beach Testing

(removing Black Forest test data...see History)

Since both characters have access to Son of a Beach, and a change in combat frequency would be wildly noticeable there, I tried the finery.

DayWith the fineryWithout*
August 8, 20071/10014/100
August 9, 20070/1008/100
August 10, 2007**5/1255/125
August 11, 20072/20026/200
August 13, 2007**16/2009/200
  • The character that does not use the finery uses the ring of aggravate monster and vorpal sword, but uses the football helmet instead of the cornuthaum. This should negate any screwiness related to +/-ML affecting combats, since both characters would experience it.
    • Switched the characters. The second set of results really surprised me...

Here's how it breaks down for the two characters:

  • Seal Clubber: with the Yendorian, 21 in 325 (6.5%); without 48 in 400 (12%)
  • Turtle Tamer: with the Yendorian, 3 in 400 (.75%); without 14 in 325 (4.3%)

Do Seal Clubbers have a better chance of encountering combats?--Foggy 14:55, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Do you have anything on that might effect the combat rate, such as the ballroom song? There shouldn't be anywhere near this big a difference in the two characters.--QuantumNightmare 16:23, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

--- Foggy

I'm a bit worried that there's something weird going on with Sonofa Beach. With the Finery, and no other effects, I spent 179 turns at the beach, and found 9 lobsterfrogmen. In the first 133 adventures I encountered 3 LFMs. In the next 46 I encountered 6. It's possible there's a mechanism which changes the combat rate as you adventure there. (Perhaps to mitigate RNG screwage for those w/o combat++ skills.) --Starwed 21:02, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm quite certain that the huge difference between the two characters is because their "finished quest" status was different about the Sonofa Beach. I think the combat rate is higher if you finish it in Hippy Gear, lower in Frat Gear, even lower if you don't complete the quest at all. Do you remember how each of your characters completed the quest? --Ekeinos 04:45, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

IMPORTANT NOTE: ML Modifiers and Combat Frequency

  • Spading for combat modifiers right now should all be done with no +/- ML effects on. There is significant evidence right now that as of NS13, +ML (and possibly -ML from Drowsy Sword/etc.) messes with combat frequency modifiers, namely cancelling the effect of any +noncombat items. See the HCO thread for more details. --Lilac 13:48, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

Thank you for that warning, but the Yendorian Finery includes an item that causes +5ML, and thus a control condition MUST account for that.--Mis2027 21:31, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

I'd suggest using the MCD (or equivalent) at ML+5 (and a blank accessory spot) as the control condition, and use the ring as the experimental condition. ML stays at +5, and the only thing changing would be the outfit. --Deetviper 09:46, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

That's a decent idea! Thus far, Foggy and I simply left the ring on and changed the helmet or the weapon (see above), which likewise should have minimal effect.--Mis2027 12:47, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

No, don't use the MCD to give +5ML. Testing has shown that the MCD as a source of +ML does nothing to effect combat odds, unlike every other source of +ML.--QuantumNightmare 17:54, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

Thanks...was just reading that, and it explains a lot of the weirdo data I'm getting. I'm pretty convinced this outfit does reduce combat frequency, but the +ML effect is very hard to separate out....--Mis2027 18:06, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

It appears the only safe control conditions for testing involve keeping the Ring of aggravate monster equipped and replacing the Vorpal blade or Cornuthaum - that ensures that any effect of the +5ML is included in both test sets.

That said, however, it becomes extremely difficult to determine how this +5% Non-Combat will interact with other modifiers, and testing on that point may be warranted.--Mis2027 18:26, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

Can you test this out in the bedroom? Running -15% combats and this outfit should give a pretty good indication of what is happening. If the outfit decreases combats, we should see only ~1% combats from the +ML. If on the other hand this outfit does not increase combats, we'll see ~6% combats. And you're right about needing to include the ring of aggravate monster in any control test. The reason I like testing combat modifiers against areas like the bedroom or icy peak is because you don't need control test: you know that you are starting with 20% or 85% combats and can easily test if you have modified combat odds to 0% or 100%. The +ML makes this more difficult, but just on the order of ~1% at values of +ML this low.--QuantumNightmare 18:58, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

Sounds great - I just did a quick test with yet another character, and in 70 turns with the Finery, The Sonata of Sneakiness, the Ring of conflict, and Sono Un Amanten Non Un Combattente, I saw no combat encounters, but earlier today using the character cited above I saw 2 encounters in 60 adventures. This suggests the effects described for +5ML and the Finery thus far are acting as expected. However, given the very small samples sizes, I'll continue testing and doing so very systematically. QN, thanks for the suggestion! --Mis2027 19:10, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

date: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 / Starch 8
location: The Haunted Bedroom
character: Brian of Loathing
equipment (all times): cornuthaum, Bounty-hunting pants, Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, ring of cold resistance
familiar: Baby Gravy Fairy with Eye-pod equipped
buffs (all times): Smooth Movements, Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Fresh Scent

condition 1 (+20% non-combat): Kneecapping stick, The Sonata of Sneakiness, ring of fire resistance; 38 turns
condition 2 (+20% non-combat, +5 ML): Kneecapping stick, The Sonata of Sneakiness, ring of aggravate monster; 125 turns
condition 3 (presumed +20% non-combat, +5 ML): Vorpal blade (i.e. Finery), ring of aggravate monster (i.e. Finery, no Sonata); 125 turns

results: 0 combat adventures!!
conclusion: the +5 ML effect on Combat Frequency is negligible
--Mis2027 21:21, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

  • It's very interesting that changing sonata for the finery gave the same +noncombat effect... this is a big find. However, I've got to disagree with your "effect of ML is negligible". In the test directly above, you got 2 combats in 60 turns. The rate is small, but even +5ML has a noticeable effect on noncombat modifiers.--QuantumNightmare 21:54, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Current estimate of ML modifier on Combat Frequency from AFH (link courtesy of QN) is 0.22% per level. As such, the ring's +5 ML would reduce the net effect of the Finery to +3.9% non-combat.--Mis2027 10:08, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Combat Frequency Effects Stack

It is possible to wear a ring of conflict or have The Sonata of Sneakiness to counter the effect --Myst44 10:07, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

This can be said, apparently, for any combination of Combat Frequency modifiers, giving a reasonable amount of control over the phenomenon.--Mis2027 19:10, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

New outfit effect?

Has anyone tested anything for a new outfit effect? I probably would expect something item dropy, maybe food, given the nature of Nethack.--Brion thenotgiant 19:48, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

on september 3rd radio show it was confirmed that after removing old effect no new effect were added. --Hrag 13:50, 5 September 2009 (UTC)