Talk:The Sorceress' Tower/archive

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General remarks

I notice that the Pastamancer and Sauceror strategy blurbs still contemplate multiple enchanted toothpicks, but you can no longer equip more than one of that item. Aside from a baconstone pendant, any other ideas of what could fill that spot? -Oobie —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 17:24, 17 February 2006 (Central Standard Time).

Yeah, the ring of aggravate monster I mean, ring of increase damage, but it's only half as powerful as the pendant. I've added that info, and changed the descriptions as well. The strategy for Pastamancer originally said:
Similarly, the strategy for Sauceror was changed from:
I changed those since you can only equip one toothpick now, but this could use a little more strategy on which spell to use.
--Dentarthurdent 14:30, 20 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)
  • With the Sauceror, would it be more effective to use a second baconstone pendant/ring of increased damage, rather than the acid squirting flower, essentially mimicking the Pastamancer strategy? --Aemeth 04:39, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Does having a familiar that restores Hp effect the shadow?--Cowdude101 09:35, 20 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)

With the new Turtle Tamer Skills involving shields, and the Seal Clubber skill leting you equip two weapons, it might be worth re-evaluating ideal equpment and tactics for them, and possiblly the moxie classes, too.--Rikmach 22:50, 16 March 2006 (CST)

  • "this mortal coil" is not the preserve of monty python, and it would have been "shuffled" and not "buggered". --Evilkolbot 16:54, 2 April 2006 (CDT)
    • ...and "shuffled off this mortal coil" is slightly older than Monty Python. It originally comes from Hamlet.--RyokoYahagi 15:16, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
  • The first form (I'd bet the second too) counts as a spearate kill for familiars. My familiar leveled when it went to the second form. Dunno if anyone else has noticed that or not, but I didn't see it anywhere. --CateranLlama 01:21, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
  • Re: The Tower Monsters; My second staircase monster was The Darkness, but I didn't have any inkwells, so I went to The Haunted Library, fought a Writing Desk, but even with a pickpocket I didn't get an inkwell. Even after fighting two I did not receive an inkwell. It would appear that you do not always receive the required staircase items after fighting monsters that drop them.

Pattern in her familiars

It may just be my imagination, but the Sorceress' second pet always seems to be whichever familiar I used against the first pet — e.g., the first pet is a barrrnacle, which I defeat with my angry goat, and then the second pet is a goat. Has this happened to anyone else, or can you confirm that it doesn't always happen? —Dentarthurdent(T,C) 14:55, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

  • You may be onto something. Earlier today when I took on the NS, my first familiar battle was with a Mosquito, which was defeated with a Sabre-Toothed Lime. The second familiar battle was against a Sabre-Toothed Lime. If this is true, this could simplify things a lot. Of course, it could also cause Jick to fix it to be properly random. --Quietust 15:09, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Well, I just encountered a Levitating Potato (defeated with Barrrnacle). Anticipating a Barrrnacle, I took out my Angry Goat, and then found myself facing the Sorceress' Angry Goat. So the pattern didn't hold true. —Dentarthurdent(T,C) 12:12, 3 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Goat followed by Potato, so no. --Jonrock 02:54, 17 August 2006 (CDT)
  • It seems like this: except goat is followed by potato, all other 4 familiars have that pattern of the second familiar is the one that you used to beat the first one. --Angelcat 19:40, 24 November 2006 (CST)
  • I encountered a lime followed by a goat--Angelcat 12:26, 28 November 2006 (CST)

I'm seeing a pattern in the familiars. The first seems random, at least can't find a way to determine that one. The second familiar is "the one that can beat the one you used to beat the first". Example:

  • 1st: sabre-toothed lime;
  • Needs a levitating potato to kill;
  • A barrrnacle would beat a levitating potato;
  • 2nd: Barrrnacle.

Can anyone disprove this pattern? --MoreCurious 05:31, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

  • it's mostly true, but not exclusively so. perhaps some spading is needed to find out the relative frequencies of familiars. try discussing it. --Evilkolbot 07:50, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
  • Last ascension: Lime and Barnacle - matches pattern. This ascension: Lime and Goat - doesn't match. Disproved. Finding out the frequencies might indeed be interesting, though. They're probably equally likely to appear, but I wonder if anyone has done any actual testing on that... --Andemon 11:45, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

Ok... I've "noticed" this for a while... but I need to test this a little more before I write up anything formal. This could just be me noticing things that aren't there.

Now... it sucks to be me that I'm ascending today as I know the initial response to this will be "lolzors - april fools it's random suckers!" but nevertheless I'm convinced that you can predict the second familiar that the NS will use in a fight.

The "main spoiler site" insists that the familiars she uses are choosen randomly. However I'm pretty sure that only the first familiar is choosen randomly and the second familiar is then:

Angry Goat - Levitating Potato
Barrrnacle - Sabre-Toothed Lime
Levitating Potato - Mosquito
Mosquito - Barrrnacle
Sabre-Toothed Lime - Angry Goat

The reasoning behind this seems to be a little... complicated. But taking the Lime as an example I'll talk you through it.

The NS Lime is beaten by the Player's Potato.
The NS Potato would be beaten by the Player's Barrrnacle.
The NS Barrnacle would be beaten by the Player's Goat.
The NS uses a Goat.

Now... I realise that because of the circular mechanism of the familiar fight... you could go around in circles like this forever. But I'm pretty sure that is this "five familiars of separation thing". - JohnDoe244 06:01, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

    • Her familiars from my last four ascensions: 1) Lime, Barnacle; 2) Lime, Goat; 3) Mosquito, Barnacle; 4) Mosquito, Lime. Seems quite random to me. --Andemon 11:54, 1 April 2007 (CDT)
  • This has been discussed several times on this page. I just moved all of the relevant discussion to one spot. --TheDotGamer 10:32, 1 April 2007 (CDT)

I find the pattern that shifts familiars ONCE (not twice) to happen WAY more frequently. For instance this ascension: NS used Mosquito. Beat it with my Lime. NS used Lime.

It seems that this is the case quite often (i can't think of a time when it HASN'T happened, but <10 ascensions isn't enough for proof. --Almighty Sapling 02:29, 6 October 2008 (PST)

In my 31 ascensions I can't remember even once when this pattern didn't hold true. Even if it is random on rare occasion, wouldn't it be helpful to mention it as a tip on the page because the worst that could happen is it was random and you now know which to pick as the right familiar? --TierAngst 5:05, 18 November 2008 (CST)

Familiars for first-timers

The familiars section lists five familiars that are not available to beginning players. Which among the familiars available through basic play are recommended? --DirkDiggler 02:36, 5 May 2006 (CDT)

  • It lists 4. The grue is still available. Honestly, the grue is pretty good, but so is whatever had to be leveled up for the familiar bit. --Ricket 03:12, 5 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Sure, but if you're coming through the game for the first time you may have missed the grue, and besides it may not be her time of the month. Going to the Familiar abilities table, it looks to this naive user that the Cocoabo, Ghuol Whelp, or Mosquito (for attack+regen); the Spooky Pirate Skeleton or Barrrnacle (for delevel); and the Stab Bat, Angry Goat or Sabre-Toothed Lime (for pure attack) would all be reasonable strategies. (More data on Familiar damage dealing would clearly be helpful.) I beat the sorceress using a Cocoabo, but I can't say I was charmed when he kept pitching me meat during the battle. At equal familiar weights, can anyone provide insight into which choice of familiar gives the highest chance of success? And is there a recommended weight to level that familiar to before entering battle? --DirkDiggler 22:58, 6 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Advice from experts:
I wish to know the / newbie familiar / that's best for N.S.
I have not the grue / only ghuol whelp, cocoabo / pirate, barrrnacle
mosquito, lime, goat / monkey, pirate, potato / which attacks the best?
Feathery Hat: Personally, I / Prefer the barrrnacle from / All of those choices.
Empathetic One: The easiest way / is to use a ghost pickle / but you can't afford
Enkazama: Yes, of what you have / Barrrnacle or Star Starfish / help most on NS.

--The preceding unsigned comment was added by DirkDiggler (talkcontribs) at 20:13, 7 May 2006 (CDT).

DB strategy for NS suggstions

I would like to suggest a change to the Disco Bandit strategy. I just defeated the NS in two tries. I wore my most moxious outfit. Fedora, ski shirt, chaps, 3 breath sprays. Off hand I used the moxie magnet. My familiar was the Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot with a rhesus monkey. The NPZR was only 15 lbs with the monkey made it 20. Electric Boogaloo II for the first round followed by Clacola and Dispesycola Grenades and Moxious Manuvers. Round 2 Disco Face Stab, MM and the same 2 throwing attacks. Cost me 10-15 of each type of grenade. The NPZR heals better than normal healing potions and does it more frequently than healing potions would for the initial rounds. High moxie ensures the throw weapons and special move will hit. Previous assentions where I nerfed moxie with the furry suit just made throwing things harder. This time going with strengths was a huge win. Where to get the grenades? Halloween. How about the NPZR? About one or two days farming on the peak at level 10 to earn the money to buy its components. With moxie classes I think going pure moxie makes more sense then trying to nerf what your good at. --smacfarl 10:26, 6 May 2006 (EST)

very funny ;-) Do u really think "i just buy all the stuff" counts as clever strategy? Or "wait 1 year for helloween"? --Tomthe3rd 14:34, 9 September 2006 (CDT)
Not "1 year", but 32 days. KoL years are much, much shorter than real years.Samika 01:12, 4 January 2007 (CST)
Not "32 days" but 96 days. KoL years are not as short as you think.Almighty Sapling 02:29, 6 October 2008 (PST)

I just had the easiest win ever I think - so easy that I'm almost afraid that if I post it it will get nerfed: Level 14 DB with a 23 pound angry goat.

round 1 - plot hole and photoprotoneutron torpedo until 1 plot hole hit her. After that, 2 photoprotoneutron torpedos until dead.

round 2 - plot hole and photoprotoneutron torpedo until 2 plot holes hit her. After that, 2 photoprotoneutron torpedos until dead.

I used 22 photoprotoneutron torpedos and maybe 5 plot holes, but the photoprotoneutron torpedos are cheap in the mall and you are pretty much guaranteed to have some plot holes. I didn't even have to heal myself.

that's all...

--DreamTheEndless 10:44, 29 April 2007 (CDT)

Moxie Classes strategy for NS suggstions

I have ascended twice with a moxie class ( firstly AT and then a DB ) both on Boozetefarian, and i used the naked strategy. I only had a detective clockwork skull, wand and porquoise bracelet with a fully leveled GPoS with ht e razor mounted blade. It worked like a charm but it was especially easy with the DB skill ambidextrous funkslinging , on one hand plot holes and on the other HP restorers.--Jz 03:45, 1 June 2006 (CDT)--Jz 03:45, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

That's an easy strat for all characters, and is not class specific. Therefore, there is no point to adding it.--Kiltan 23:27, 5 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Speaking of Moxie classes... Anyone else agree that the furry suit should be removed from their listings? I tried it during one of my Disco Bandit runs, and it made the Sorceress completely impossible to defeat. She *always* hit me for massive damage, and I could barely scratch her. Tested with various familiars and all that to make sure that it wasn't just RNG messing with me. More than twenty tries later I still hadn't even managed to get past her first form once. Switched to moxie-/boosting/ equipment instead, and she went down in the next battle before I could blink... Moxie-reducing seems like a horribly bad choice for that class. --Andemon 16:04, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
    • I think the furry suit can be useful for moxie classes for a couple of reasons.
1 Damage absorption. Both pieces of the costume will help absorb her blows. Whether this gets negated by having low moxie may be a different story.
2 It reduces how strong the NS is. NS scales to moxie, therefore reducing your moxie makes her a bit easier.

I have used the furry suit as a moxie class in hardcore, and it does make her easier. It helps to have some cross class skills to support it, so that you can actually do damage though. For first time, or very low skills, the NS is likely going to clobber you a few times anyway, but each loss makes her a bit easier (which may help explain why you beat her after you lost to her). MM is a good strategy as well, but goes completely against the furry suit, so no MM'ing while wearing the suit. I'd say leave it in.--J12601 19:59, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

      • It was my fifth Disco Bandit HC run, and I was able to defeat her blindfolded and one arm tied behind my back during the previous runs. There's definitely something wrong when you go from constantly defeating her in one battle to losing over twenty times. Getting hit for around 15hp each round hurts a lot when you are playing a low-hp class; and on the top of that, her moxie didn't seem to fully scale to mine, because I was almost completely unable to hit her. It's like she was getting a massive +ML modifier from somewhere. Oh well, I suppose I'll have to give the suit another try during my next DB run... --Andemon 01:53, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Her moxie will not scale to your moxie. Her attack will roughly scale to to your moxie (+5). Her defense will scale to your muscle +5 or so. That info can be found here here. In my early HC runs, I had varying experience with fighting her (and often losing to a few times), and would sometimes take her out in 3-4 tries, other times it could take a lot more. The biggest difference that I found was in having combat skills which did a good amount of damage. On myst runs, before I permed TS, I found that spells took her out quite well, and on muscle runs I had some sort of combat skill. Moxie runs were tougher without using MM (which often depleted my MP too quickly with her skill blocking) heavily, and with my HP so low as to allow her to kill me off in very few hits. Her getting a +5 over each of your stats also gives her an advantage - she'll hit more often that you will, no matter what.--J12601 07:55, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

A star hat is now noted as strategy tip raising MP, changing this to a beer helmet after NS13 since a beer helmet adds 10 more MP to stats and is acquired easely? (Island Quest level 12)

Heavy and Light Doors

What's this about the truth-teller saying "You're full of it"? None of the guards say that.--DementiaIncarnate 13:59, 29 May 2006 (CDT)

  • The text changes; "You're full of it" is said sometimes.--Dehstil 14:12, 29 May 2006 (CDT)

I think that the theory about the one that says "You're full of it" always being the truth-teller is incorrect. The guard that said that during my most recent time at the door also said "He's lying" in regards to the guard that said "I suppose you want the combination to the other door, then? I'm getting really tired of people asking about that." He was the one that switched from truth to lies, not the truth-teller.--Socks 00:34, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

More on Familiars

From statistical tests, a 20 lb MicroMech should attack for an average of 15.25 damage each round with it's familiar eqipment. A 20 lb GPoaS should attack for an average of 25 damage with it's familiar equipment. However, this doesn't take into account that the pickle delevels approximately 40% of the time in my tests. This would seem to make the MicroMech the better familiar. --McDutchy 15:04, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

Only slightly, and only if you don't care about the delevel. Admittedly she will shimmer it away often, but it does help. --Skin Deep 09:37, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

Page Name

Is this page name really appropriate given the content it holds? Maybe it's just me, but it seems like The Sorceress' Tower (The Stairs) is more deserving of this page name, and that this page should be renamed to something else. --Quietust 15:35, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

Naughty Familiar Tidbit

If you don't bring a familiar in against the naughty familiars, you will be hit for 50 HP TWICE instead of once. --Zztmanthefifth 14:07, 12 August 2006 (CDT)


I feel that the info on this page is, well, misleading. Having her fought only a couple of times, my exp. is of course limited, but

  • the decisive aspects are luck and retry. Dont waste much time on optimizing your gear.
  • the furry suit however is useful in reducing her damage to you.
  • combat items are not important (at least for SA,PM,TT,SC)
  • whatever familiar u bring, even a 30p one with a TT, may give u the few hits/hitpoints missing for winning, but may just as well do nothing. So dont waste time and meat and most of all nerves, u will beat her on the next try anyway. Of course i dont have one of those bizarre familiars people who need this page for advice cant get their hands on anyway. Maybe they make a real difference, but still u dont need them.
  • dont waste meat and turns on healing items. I did best without using any. On one run i wasted roughly 60 docs and ten red pixel potions without her letting _one_ through.
  • use your cheap skills, the costly ones dont do more damage ( that is TS for SC, Kneebutt for TT, rays for PM,stream for SA)
  • in my exp. normal attacks dont get through better than skills or items.
  • to be continued.. --Tomthe3rd 08:01, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
    • Some items are very useful for any class: torpedo, grouchy restless spirit, cola grenades, unspeakable evil all give uncapped damage in sizeaable amounts. The various delevellers (plot hole, stink bomb, wussiness) are *very* useful if you respect the delevel limit before she shimmers. --DirkDiggler 10:36, 25 November 2006 (CST)

Tips from the EIGHT NEW ZONES, by a DB

  • 9-ball is a better off-hand vs the NS than a flaming talons.
  • Tango of Terror deals 17-20 or so spooky damage to the NS, with a 9-ball.
  • Scroll of ancient forbidden unspeakable evils deal around 24-25 damage to her, but 5-7 to you.

--Emtu 00:19, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

Flaming talons is better if you're just planning to attack her with the Wand of Nagamar, and not use any skills.--Jubbers 04:04, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

Is it better to use antique spear if you have double fisted skull smashing? --Tom93 12:54, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

Yes, it is. Equip the antique spear (or, ideally, Stainless steel shillelagh) as your weapon and then equip the Wand in your offhand.--Jubbers 18:56, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

  • These days, it might be better to offhand the spear - I hear it doesn't brak that way. --Id the Mildly Confused 17:15, 7 December 2006 (CST)
  • I agree. By equipping a spear in the off-hand, you can delevel with every hit and not have to worry about your spear breaking. Great way to smash her. --LegendaryBard 16:18, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

Shadow, defeating, yadda yadda

I changed the order, such that initiative is outside the parenthisese and HP is inside. Reasoning if you get your initiative high enough to get the jump that is helpful to anyone (any class), the HP though since she scales is a more marginal benefit though it is proven.--Practitioner of Saucy Arts 15:21, 5 November 2006 (CST)

I went to kill the Shadow and it had over 400 HP. My HP was 185, as a DB, muscle: 152(127), myst: 108, moxie: 171 (169). --Meiao

I had 475 hp going into the shadow (since it may scale to yours now), and did 286 damage with no luck. 413 did take it down. Of course I also got beat up and had 9 hp still, odd. Any data on whether shadow's hp and/or damage scale to your whatever now? --Davydd

It seems to scale, yes, to about your hitpoints +maybe 20% more. The shadow's damage also scales based on your hitpoints (seems to hit for 40-42% from what I've observed). You CAN buff HP too much for the shadow - over 280 is too much, imo, unless you have funkslinging. Pretty much: if the shadow hits you for significantly more than what gauze garters/filthy poultices can repair and you can't last 4-5 rounds, you're toast. I've found 280ish (or 290ish beaten up from a max of 350) to be ideal; any higher and I would die on the 4th round, even with combat initiative greatly boosted (so missing the first round hit). -MarcyRoni 12:51, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

My first ascension in NS13, I read about the Shadow. Tried with gauze garters and filthy poultices (no AmbiFunk), got Beaten Up. I kept the Beaten Up, which left me at 317/317 HP when healed. Using garters and poultices, I beat the Shadow on my second try. Could Beaten Up help? --StorellaDeville 04:00, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

moved--I just found out that using the navel, you can avoid your shadows attacks. potentially this could enable you to defeat your shadow without any potions just skills, or small cheap potions. I'm bad at editing the main page so if someone else could do this for me? Vazhkatsi 13:59, 5 October 2007 (CDT)

Moxious Maneuver

"In oxy and boozetafarian, Moxious Maneuvers can replace Chronic Indigestion."

Isn't this a bit misleading? If you're using the outfit suggested in the article, surely Moxious Maneuver would drastically reduce hit chance and damage done? --NoodleHannah 09:18, 14 November 2006 (CST)

Removing the Naked 'Strategy'

I've removed the Naked strategy, because it does not help. Its not a strategy, because DA has been proven to work on the NS, and not wearing any equipment only serves to make her harder by increasing her damage (or rather, not decreasing it). Its only making things harder, and this is a misconception that frankly needs to be killed. So I removed it =p --Kittiwake 01:28, 24 November 2006 (CST)

The Sorceress' Curse

From what I've heard in /hardcore, the sorceress' curse on your familiar effectively halves its weight. Can anyone confirm?--Jubbers14 19:59, 24 November 2006 (CST)

  • Thanks to my Penguin Goodfella I can now confirm this with certainty. A Goodfella contract normally costs three times the familiar's weight. My 28-pound PG is only requiring 42 meat for each contract I successfully use, which is 1.5 times its weight, i.e. EXACTLY half as much as usual.--Jett 08:13, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
    • The amount of de-buffing that the curse does is actually dependent upon the number of ascensions that you've done. I believe it ranges from -25% to -50%. --Hellion 12:49, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

Her Naughtiness's Healing

With the advent of the toy space helmet, it seems as though it should now be possible, for what it's worth, to more closely determine the amount of HP that the NPZR actually heals herself for. Here's some preliminary data (note that my max HP is 138, so I assume hers is 200; also, before anyone yells at me about the discrepancy regarding my reported damage and my max HP, note that I'm including elemental damage, familiar damage, bucket damage, and nanomechamech damage):

  • Hit #1: dealt 50 damage
  • Heal #1: NS HP is, according to the helmet, at 182 (therefore 32 points of healing?)
  • Hit #2: dealt 55 damage; NS HP is supposedly at 130 (clearly the helmet is not - as its description suggests it is not - totally accurate)
  • Next report: no damage, no healing; NS HP reported at 128
  • Hits #3 and #4: dealt 63 damage, no report, dealt 63 damage, NS down. (Clearly her HP was at a maximum of 126, or I missed something, but I don't think that's the case.)

Form 2:

  • Hit #1: 56 damage (note: plus 11-pound-minus-curse-pickle delevel, if that matters for her healing); reported HP: 146 (not far off!)
  • Hits #2 and #3: 55 damage, no report, 57 damage, no report, 52 damage, Form 2 down.

Form 2 didn't heal and is therefore unhelpful in terms of figuring out her healing - but this data can of course add to any "let's determine the helmet's accuracy" projects. --Id the Mildly Confused 16:51, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Just fought her myself with the toy space helmet. She only healed once (during the first form), but interestingly it was on the very first round (i.e. before I could do anything), and the helmet reported her HP afterwards at 250. My max was at 226 HP, and that was what the helmet said her HP were at the beginning of form 2. So it looks like she starts at your max HP (when yours is above 200), but that's not necessarily her max...--Adbax 00:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Yellow exclamation points!

I just saw a message that started with "Yellow exclamation points!" and then said to check the quest log because there was something I needed to do. It was in a yellow frame up where it usually tells me about new messages and so on, and it's nagging me because I haven't freed King Ralph yet. Sadly, I clicked on something else before I could stop myself, so I don't have the exact text. Could someone else who has seen this add the phenomenon to the post-slaying section? (Yes, I am totally new at the editing thing and there might be a good reason that it's not there. But there might not!) --Poingpoingsplat 17:15, 6 February 2007 (CST)

  • That would be the result of the most recent update. It seems to appear after logging in, to hint you towards which quests you have no completed. It's definately not specific to The Sorceress' Tower. For example, it may say something like,
    Looking for something to do?

    There's some unfinished business in your Quest Log.
    or another example:
    You should go see the Council of Loathing in Seaside Town.

    if you have some quest incomplete or are eligible for a new quest. It seems to direct you exactly where you need to go next. --TheDotGamer 19:30, 6 February 2007 (CST)

Damage Absorption & Clockwork Trenchcoat

There is very little information on the effect of Damage Absorption with the Naughty Sorceress. I offer the following information if it should be of help:

I started the fight with the NS as a Seal Clubber with stats of 111(107)/71/23(72); 172 HP/71 MP.

I used the following equipment:

Familiar: 20 lb. Ghost Pickle on a Stick w/skewer-mounted razor blade equipped.

Relevant Skills Used (Active & Passive)

Relevant Skills Available but Unused

N.B. Note that Hide of the Otter and Hide of the Walrus already give a combined +60 Damage Absorption. Using the clockwork trenchcoat gives an additional +15 Damage Absorption.

First form went as follows:

  • Took 9 points on first hit.
  • Thrust smack didn't work.
  • Roofie didn't work.
  • Hit using wand for 26+5+2+5 damage
  • Thrust smack for 48+5+2+5
  • 29+5+2+5 using Wand of Nagamar. Still taking 9 points on each hit. That's seems like a lot. I usually only take about 6-7.
  • 54+5+2+5 on another thrust smack. First form over. 117/172 HP left. 37/71 MP left.

Second form:

  • Roofie works in second form. Briney does 17 damage
  • Briney does 9 damage. But I lost 13 HP
  • Thrust smack hits for 48+5+2+5. I lose 9 points
  • Wand hits for 22+5+2+5. MP down to 34
  • Used a whole bunch of thrust smacks and wands that didn't land. Losing 13 points/hit.
  • Drank a red pixel potion and gained 25 HP.
  • Thrust smack hits for 52+5+2+5.

Second form over. She's dead!

Final stats are 32/172 HP and 8/71 MP.

Observations: I realize this is somewhat unscientific, so take this for what it is worth. It only took one time to beat the NS using the clockwork trench coat. I took more damage at 9-13 HP/hit instead of the usual 6-7 HP/hit, BUT I also did more damage than I've done in the past. I may have to test this some more on another run. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem to hurt to wear the clockwork trench coat.

CharlesMartel 02:24, 17 February 2007 (CST)

Blocking Rates vs. ascensions?

I know the losing/blocking rate correlation is well documented, but is there some kind of subtle relationship between the frequency with which the NS blocks your items/skills and your ascension count? It just seems that my main (20 ascensions) connects with his skills/items--well, still not very often, but frequently enough to get the job done within the first few tries and often on the very first try. With my brand-new multi I almost invariably have to fall back on the "intentionally losing a whole bunch" strategy, because I can barely pop an Elixir even with AFS.--Jett 22:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Weapon of the Pastalord

"You can try to use Weapon of the Pastalord which does about 85 damage with kickback cookbook, but does work only on some ascensions." Huh? --Tularion 14:15, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

  • I've seen that before, had no idea what it was about. I've used the Weapon against her on about six runs, and it never did more than ~32 damage or so (in that ballpark, anyway - it's been a while). I wonder if it actually does more during some runs... --Andemon 15:57, 15 April 2007 (CDT)


  • do we really need all the references from the other NS pages here? none of the stuff is actually mentioned on this page. --Evilkolbot 11:39, 30 May 2007 (CDT)
  • It says that 'bugger off this mortal coil' is a reference to hamlet, but isn't it a reference to Monty Python's Meaning of Life? (Which in turn references Hamlet.)

The Appearance of the Storm

After Rollover on June 17th, 2007 (9 PM Pacific), after defeating the Naughty Sorceress, in addition to the King in his prism and the ruins of the Sorceress' Chamber, there is an animated picture of a stormcloud shooting lightning. This is obviously a prelude to new NS13 content, due to be released in seven days.


--Langsuir 00:11, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

I would like to point out how freakin' ominous "The Storm" sounds. And also how freakin' awesome.

--Southwest 00:13, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

you dont have to beat the NS to see the storm. see nothing to worry about--Blood panther 00:14, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

--EDIT: Just noticed it sitting over the lair...:) Smallstorm.gif --Langsuir 00:19, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

So, to summarize: (1) over the beach on the main map (small), (2) over the remains of the prism after smashing (large), and (3) over the lair (small) (on the main map? on the lair uberzone page?) The nothing to worry about page is highly nonstandard--its contents should probably be put in a Note on the NS13 page. If it sticks around beyond NS13, it could go on the Locations page, since that's the only place in the wiki which has a main map image. --Jonrock 00:34, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

  • Corrections: (2) over The Sorceress' Chamber at all points in the chamber battle(s) (large), and (3) over the Lair, on its uberzone page (small). Thanks to everyone who uploaded pictures so that everyone else could see. --Jonrock 15:03, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Beating the Naughty Sorceress without a WAND?

Need a confirm deny on the new NS13 NS fight. I've heard multible (atleast one slightly repridable) claims of beating the NS without the WAND. Possible tie into Skullys infomation about needing to NOT do something in an asscension to unlock hardercore. --The preceding unsigned addition was made at the top of the page by Zafoquat on 21:28, 26 June 2007

Been done, see Golden sausage. Probably edited so it can't be done again. --Creamy 16:39, 26 June 2007 (CDT)

First time doing this, so I hope it's right.

Last night (that'd be about 5 am EST, 26 June), I went into fight the NS with a batblade equipped instead of the Wand, and when I got to the third form, the text was the same as if I'd had the Wand equippred e.g. the Wand would anagram each of her attacks. Weird. Afterwards, I went back to the inventory to make it was a batblade equipped (flaming talons in offhand).

There were some other odd things happening too. --Xenith 02:56, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Confirmed. I just killed her (without missing or being blocked once) with two Happieness equipped. [I was lvl14 (175/155/266)] It was a little too easy. Probably missed something important. --Dibbin 07:38, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Yep, I just defeated her with a cheffstave and a shield equipped. Again, the third form combat text was as though I had a wand equipped.

This does *not* unlock Hardercore, though, or at least it's not an obvious option. Flickgc 07:21, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

I just did it with some chopsticks and a spell book equipped. Same anagram messages, but still won. If it matters, stat gains were 126, 249, 125, but I have some permed skills and a zodiac sign. --Merric 15:14, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

As a moxie class I could not land a blow when I carried a wand. As I could not offhand a wand, I ended up going in with just my 2-handed epic weapon. I also wore moxie increasing items instead of hp/mp increasing items which reduced my damage taken per blow from high double digits to low double digits. In other words, all the old strategies failed me. She ulli 21:56, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

  • Is it possible that you only have to have the wand in inventory now? --Sparksol 22:18, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, this has been confirmed many times and I've edited this article to reflect that. --Y0u 05:52, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

When I try to go up against the NS without a wand, I get the message, "Hm, it's possible there is something very important you're forgetting. Maybe you should double-check just to make sure." There's a picture of the wand. I don't seem to be able to enter combat without the wand equipped.--MicheleColeman 22:26, 3 July 2007 (CDT)

  • Do you have a Wand at all? That may be what the game is trying to tell you. As stated, you no longer need the Wand equipped, but you just need it in your inventory. I'm kinda lost as to why this change came to be, what with...well, this making the NS a bit easier, or so I think. Hmm. --Doomsday Forte 22:55, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
    • Forgot to mention: yes, I have a wand of Nagamar in my inventory.--MicheleColeman 23:41, 3 July 2007 (CDT)
      • Isn't the "Hm, it's possible there is something very important you're forgetting..." text from KoLmafia? I don't remember it existing in game. --Neptuneizzy 02:06, 4 July 2007 (CDT)
        • Yes! It's KoLMafia. Mystery solved. Thanks.--MicheleColeman 02:19, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

found floorboard crufts to deal 100 stink damage + knocks enemy unconcious (she can still block items and spells despite being unconcious, how cool is that?)

The thing with KoLMafia happened to me as well, and it took me ages to work it out. I think that it'd be worthwhile putting up a warning about having KoLMafia running while attemping to fight her without the wand equipped, as i imagine a large amount of people use it due the need for things like farming for red pixel potions. --Parroharro 06:04, 23 July 2007 (CDT)

NS Hit Points

  • ns form 1 took 600 damage and 3 heals
  • ns form 2 took 780 damage and 1 heal--Myst44 21:33, 6 July 2007 (CDT)
  • form 1: ~550 damage (probably overkill)
  • form 2: 584 damage. --Lokathor 06:13, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Not getting rid of negative buffs?

Slight change for NS13 - Beaten Up doesn't seem to be removed anymore. Does this apply for any other negative buffs? This needs to be spaded. --Sneakabout 20:00, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

She did not remove the Confused I had gotten from a bang potion.--Error1 20:13, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

The article currently says she does not get rid of negative effects like Hopped Up on Goofballs. Is this a mistake? Hopped Up on Goofballs is a buff, not a negative effect. Did the editor mean Goofball Withdrawal? --Stufff 00:20, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Didn't remove Confused or Sleepy for me. More testing needed I guess. --Catch-22 01:15, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

She didn't remove Cunctatitis --Garfnobl 16:23, 29 September 2007 (CDT)

New Strategies!

I didn't really see a consolidated area to talk about this, so I thought I would create one. Now with the NS being essentially an entirely new kind of monster, we should probably rewrite our approaches to combat strategy. I personally found that items from The Battlefield were extremely helpful - I used a tube sock (+20 mox) to counteract and complement my Danglin' Chad's loincloth (+25 sleaze, -10 mox). The longhaired hippy wig added an additional +20 stench (and boosted my mysticality a bit so I could keep up the thrust-smacks), I double-wielded a shillelagh and an antique spear, kick-ass kicks and an Iiti Kitty phone charm added even MORE elemental damage, and a bronze breastplate added some more protection - not that I needed it since at level 17 she didn't hit me once. Used a 20-pound MAS, but at the level of damage I was dealing he only got to howl once and attack twice.--Dorf (t|c) 16:03, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

I found something rather surprising when I beat the NS for the first time yesterday (I was level 14): my Legendary Epic Weapon (in this case, the Hammer of Smiting) worked remarkably well. I was unable to beat her for quite a while when I was using things like the lead pipe and antique spear, but I beat her after a single try with the Hammer of Smiting. It boosts my muscle by sixteen, increases the chance of critical hits by threefold, and allows me to still use my off-hand for another weapon or shield. Its power is low - only ninety - but I couldn't find anything else that worked quite as well. Does anyone know if it could be the same for any of the other classes' LEWs? --Goatee Man 16:27, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Since she no longer scales, actual player level becomes more important. Unless a player has really great equipment, they may want to be as close to level 14 as possible before fighting her. I am currently a level 13 Seal Clubber with 10 muscle points to go to level 14, and she kicked my butt numerous times. My stats are: Muscle: 185 (163) Mysticality: 128 (113) Moxie: 123 (108) Equipment: Hat: reinforced beaded headband Weapon: bat blade Offhand: goatskin umbrella Pants: black greaves Accessory 1: Pink Heart of Spirit Accessory 2: ring of increase damage Accessory 3: Iiti Kitty phone charm Familiar: 23 lb Cocoabo (chocolate spurs)

Also- about accessories. Has anyone else used any of the battlefield award medals with any success? They have better stats than some of the other stat increasers currently listed. --Zxa 08:52, 14 July 2007 (CDT)

Anyone else try killing her with a drowsy sword? I've noticed she doesn't immediately remove debuffs, and she can't attack while removing negative stats from herself anymore. --Trytoguess 16:15, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Yes, the drowsy sword is pretty great (esp for non spellcasting classes). Multiple TT runs have used the drowsy sword on her (and all other bosses), and it seems to decrease her level significantly over time, since as you said she doesn't immediately de-buff herself. -MarcyRoni 12:47, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Perhaps I was abit too leveled, but with 2 bottle-rocket crossbows at level 17 on my disco bandit, along with other moxie boosts upped my moxie from 277 to 358. I used no elemental or attack boosts. TNS only hit me once for a mana loss the entire battle. Maybe now with the furry suit strategy debunked, the real secret is boosting your moxie way above her caps.--Radioactivecube 10:10, 28 July 2007 (CDT)

I think the elemental damage and +HP is overrated. Also, TT strat should include Hero of the Halfshell. Even as no-pathed, you will be so close to level 14, before you get to her, it is worth the extra meat/adventures. If you went for the wossname, you'll be level 14 for sure (maybe not if you chose to eat off-stat food). Anyways, here's my outfit, that worked extremely well on my TT vylen:

Hat: black cowboy hat
Weapon: scorpion whip
Off-Hand: sawblade shield
Pants: Danglin' Chad's loincloth
Accessory 1: Order of the Silver Wossname
Accessory 2: headhunter necktie
Accessory 3: blackberry combat boots
Familiar: 20 pound cocoa, with spurs and sympathy, not that he acted a lot.

Base stats:

Muscle: 217
Mysticality: 155
Moxie: 166

Here's the breakdown on the 2nd successful try (melee+poison_dmg, dmg_from_ns, specials):

112, 13
110, 11
112+24, 12, poison
116+10, dead

Form 2:

0+5, 15
101+2, 13
97+1, 14
97+24, 14, poison
97+28, 12MP, poison
95+34, dead, poison

It's a 2nd try, because the first time I didn't make the wand to see how good this strat worked. This try was pure melee, didn't miss a hit and didn't use anything special. Finished with 349/441 hp. --MoreCurious 06:43, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Actually, funkslinging owns her completely. Even in Hardcore. Just manage your quarters and dimes well. I was level 13 DB, I started by funking two gas balloons, then funkslung beer bombs/tequila grenades/sausage bombs/etc. She didn't even touch me, and when her second form whacked me a bit, I funkslung gauze garters for full heal. Maybe I was a bit overprepared, with 20 garters and 20 poultices, 10 or so beer bombs, and 20 or so goodfella contracts, along with a bunch of stuff I picked up in battle. --MrAndersonMan 10:33, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

Just to confirm, the Turtle Tamer combos of Head-Knee-Shield butts are still effective, albeit MP intensive. Here was my build for my first successful try:

-catskin cap
-chelonian morningstar
-catskin buckler
-bullet-proof corduroys
-Iron Beta
-turtle brooch
-pledge pin
HP: 399
MP: 183
Mus: 210 (158)
Mys: 143 (127)
Mox: 128 (118)
Lvl 13 TT in HCO
7 lbs NPZR

In combat, I almost always used the HKS combo. When I ran out of mana, I funkslung 2 gas balloons, both of which hit. I restored using 2 seltzers (yeah, not very effective, I know). Then I HKS'd 2 more times.

I tried various times with LTS/TS and combat items, both of which failed mainly because my character was not suited for those.

It took two tries to defeat her, and I changed my build somewhat in between. I decided to not use a phone charm (+25 spooky dmg), and used a pledge pin instead (+40 hp). I also replaced my batblade with the morningstar.

-Lessons learned:

For TT's, HKS is still effective, given enough MP.
You should not pulverize the drowsy sword.
Keep a decent level-12 quest shield.
Buy level-12 quest restorers.

I am trying for an AT ascension next run, in which I will try to boost my Moxie to insane levels and plink/funksling. I would appreciate and criticism/suggestions.

--Locutus 11:59, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

I guess my main point is that Muscle for a TT with Hero of the Halfshell means:

  • Better to-hit chance
  • Less damage taken
  • More hp

A lot of the items advised sacrifice muscle for either HP or elemental damage. If it wasn't clear yet, in both tries I didn't miss a hit, pure melee. I will try to figure out the threshold muscle for that, if somebody else doesn't beat me to it. Should be careful to sacrifice muscle for HP/dmg. They both don't matter if you can't hit her normally and get blocked half the time using shieldbutt combos.--MoreCurious 12:07, 30 July 2007 (CDT)

I changed the TT strat. Some numbers on the first form:

31.08 dmg/round using elemental and +HP items and a lot of shieldbutts getting blocked. And didn't even hit form 2. Died, having 60HP more to work with.
72.83 dmg/round using +melee + muscle strat as described now, which includes 2 fumbles and excludes poison from the whip. Beat her with 168HP left.

There's enough items out there that can boost your muscle to 210+, even in hardcore the items mentioned are obtainable. I used a baby fairy gravy with ant pitchfork by the way. Honestly, familiars don't make a difference for TT. --MoreCurious 09:47, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

as a SC Double-fisting palm-frond whip is an insane off hand weapon. Plus Drowsy Sword DEFINITELY needs a mention. --Drizzl

Special drop spade thread

Anoyatron: 10 Nothing --MoreCurious 09:59, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Drops for Tower Monsters

While it says in the Wiki itself that you will get an automatic drop of the item you need the next time you fight the monster what drops it (a long and confusing sentence, but hopefully intelligible), my own research (i.e. digging for a bronzed locust) has suggested that the statement is untrue. I haven't done any in-depth study with statistics and whatnot, but it would seem that the drop rate either hasn't changed, or has in fact decreased. Further testing is probably needed. --Ringo 12:45, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

Yup, it's wrong. I just got the Bronze Chef, went to the Haunted Kitchen, and the Demonic Icebox popped up and didn't drop the Leftovers. --Komet 03:09, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Shore-item weak tower monsters?

Seems that you're guaranteed to get the giant bee/collapsed mineshaft golem/enraged cow at the top floor. In my past two runs, I got the cow and the golem. Anyone else notice this? --TechSmurf 01:28, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Another datapoint - yes. But the shore item dropped first trip. Harik 02:00, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Yes, the sixth level is always a "cow", and it's item always drops on the next trip you take to the shore. (Although if you travel to the wrong location, you'll get the wrong item and miss your chance.) There's ample confirmation of this in the HCO forum.--Starwed 07:46, 11 August 2007 (CDT)
How big is the chance that this is a coincidence, caused by the fact that the first trip on a day has a very high chance to produce a "cow defeating" item. I've been taking daily shore trips on various characters and this seems to be the case, no matter the class. In fact, I just proved it:
  • Took a shore trip before tower level 5; this was the first of the day (got a barbed wire fence).
  • Got up to level 6, got a golem.
  • Took the trip in muscle area and got a ten-leaf clover, not a stick of dynamite.

--MoreCurious 14:31, 1 October 2007 (CDT)

Naughty Sorceress's ML

Why haven't we spaded this out yet? I'll start. I'm an Accordion Thief doing a Bad Moon run. I attacked her with 182 moxie (198 after equipment, but Heavy Petting subtracted 16.) The first form never hit me, except on the first round. (Is the first to-hit calculation done before she removes your buffs?) The second form hit me almost every time. I came back with 205 moxie. The first form missed every time; the second form hit fairly frequently but sometimes missed. Came back with 213 moxie. Neither form ever hit me. Summary: first form is at most ML 191, second form is at most ML 206.

Below are the result I got from an hour or two worth of fighting her. Based on the result I would estimate her ML to be either 204, or 205:

NS Hits/Misses
Moxie Rounds NS Hits NS Swings Hit %
205 68 36 60 60%
208 67 22 57 39%
210 65 6 51 12%
203* 24 1 24 4%
My Hits/Misses
Moxie Rounds NS Hits NS Swings Hit %
205 68 31 51 61%
208 67 46 54 85%
210 65 57 57 100%
203* 24 24 24 100%

Note: Used a Wussiness Potion (ML -5) and Plot Hole (ML -3) for the 203 readings

Equipment: Fancy Ball Mask, Potato Pistol, Wicker Shield, Leather Chaps, various Accessories to get moxie levels. --Tanik 20:48, 19 September 2007 (CDT)


I just found out that using the navel, you can avoid your shadows attacks. potentially this could enable you to defeat your shadow without any potions just skills, or small cheap potions. I'm bad at editing the main page so if someone else could do this for me? Vazhkatsi 13:59, 5 October 2007 (CDT)