Talk:The Blender

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Is it confirmed that this gives 0-1 adventures? That needs to be clarified, in that case. --Tularion 08:12, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

  • The "0" part is not needed, because it "occasionally" grants extra adventures, so it is not all the time, so 0 is not needed. Unless you change it to "It always gives a 0-# bonus to booze" which doesn't sound as good as "It occasionally grants 1-# bonus adventures for booze." well, that's kind of my opinion so... well, maybe someone should try this out by drinking ice-cold Sir Schlitz or ice-cold Willer. --CG1:t,c,e 10:40, 18 March 2007 (CDT)

But it matters what booze you're drinking, right? And as it says now, you have no idea with how many additional adventures you get. --Tularion 02:47, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

  • Re: poochy's edit. Can you post this spading data that was used to back up your claim?--QuantumNightmare 08:57, 29 July 2007 (CDT)

I gained 21 adventures from a rockin' wagon. I have both Blender sign and Ode to Booze. Assuming maximum yield from the rockin' wagon, Blender sign must have granted +3 adventures. --PlatypusNinja 01:22, 7 November 2007 (CST)

  • Were you wearing a tux shirt? That gives a few bonus adventures to rockin' wagons as well. And let's go over this again (copy pasted from a discussion of mine on opossum):
"First, let's get straight what Opossum DOES NOT do. It DOES NOT give a bonus of 0-3 adventures every now and then when food is consumed. What does it do? It changes
1) The maximum and minimum adventure gains for every food by 0-3. Min and max are changed independently.
2) The distribution of adventure gains within the range
Some foods do not benefit from point 1), but the ones that don't are only bad quality food in the first place. All foods benefit from point 2)."--QuantumNightmare 10:11, 7 November 2007 (CST)
    • I was indeed wearing a tux shirt. If you have evidence that rockin' wagon benefits from that, perhaps you should add it to the wiki? I'd also be interested in seeing data regarding your claim about Opossum. Right now, both The Blender and The Opossum say simply that they add extra adventures... If you know more than that, you should update the wiki, not post snarky comments on talk pages about "let's go over this again" and "it fundamentally changes the distribution." --PlatypusNinja 14:55, 7 November 2007 (CST)
  • First off, calling his comments "snarky comments" is a snarkier comment than his comments. Especially considering this was posted on both this talk page and the Oppossum talk page. It has been widely known information for a while that the way that this (and Oppossum, and pride/gluttony) works is NOT by adding adventures in a linear fashion (like got milk, which gives a straight +4 adventures when you eat a food that gives enough base adventures, or ode to booze, which does the same thing with drinks). What it ACTUALLY does is increase the "Quality" factor of a food, which changes how it's range of adventures are calculated and sets a new average. I'm not 100% on the way that Quality works, but its something like (Fullness + or - some factor)*Quality of Food range of adventures, with Fullness*Quality median. So what this means is, the 0-3+ adventures from Oppossum are not picked randomly (like the bonus familiar weight from the zodiac that does that), but are decided by the current quality and fullness of the food. So while Milk + Oppossum implies that you will get +4-7 adventures from your meins, it really means you should be getting a straight +7. Correct me if I'm wrong QuantumNightmare. And he is right in that something about this should be stated in the articles. --Wildfire393 16:02, 7 November 2007 (CST)


I couldn't really find this addressed anywhere, but...

While under both the blender sign and ode to booze, I recieved +7 adventures from a melted jell-o shot.

If information about the jell-o shot, ode to booze, and blender are correct, this shows that blender acts before ode to booze. That is: +4 adventures from shot, +1 from blender, +2 from ode (as opposed to +1 had ode been applied first) -Hoopity 01:34, 1 April 2008 (CDT)

I was under Blender and had Ode on, got 24 adventures from each of two SHCs while in Hardcore. So either Blender can give 2 adventures, or Ode can give 5. All other SHCs I drank that run were in the expected range. --MindlessGames 13:07, 20 May 2008 (CDT)

Were you wearing a tuxedo shirt mayhaps? The tuxedo shirt has been observed to increase adventure gains from certain booze. --Flargen 14:17, 20 May 2008 (CDT)
Nope, don't have Torso Awaregness in HC. --MindlessGames 14:46, 20 May 2008 (CDT)
I too recieved 24 adventures from a Mae West under blender, with ode, without a tuxedo shirt.--Kingdomsora 15:42, 3 June 2008 (CDT)
  • I decided to do some spading on Blender.

I have two characters, Character A has Ode and Blender. Character B has Ode, but no Blender. Neither one wore a tuxedo shirt during this process.

After drinking dozens of dirty martinis, Character A receives 28-33 adventures (average 30.1). Character B receives 26-30 adventures (average 28.2).

After drinking dozens of cups of primitive beer, both characters have the same range of adventures, 3-7 (but never 6). Character A averages 5.2 adventures. Character B averages 4.1 adventures.

So, when drinking dirty martinis, Blender appears to always add 2 or 3 adventures, but does not alter the distribution within the range. When drinking cups of primitive beer, Blender does not add any adventures (since I saw no 6s or 8s), but instead changes the distribution.

This seems consistent with Opossum (see QN's post above). I'm going to go ahead and update the article with what I have so far, but I'd welcome additional data points on this.--Pantsless 04:31, 11 August 2008 (CDT)

Some spading with concrete booze

Here are some new information for common booze drinking with blender and Ode running:

Glyph 4 wine (normally 5-7 adv; with ode 7-9 adv):
with ode + blender sign (9*3 bottles, 3 days): 
11, 8, 8, 11, 9, 8, 8, 8, 9 
11, 8, 9, 8, 8, 11, 9, 8, 9 
9, 9, 8, 11, 11, 9, 8, 8, 8

So no 10 adv in 3 days and maximum is 11 instead of 9. I can assume, that blender changes base 5-7 adv gain to 6-8 for this booze before the ode takes effect, So 6 with ode provides 8 adv; 7 provides 9, 8 provides 11 adv. I have some numbers of adv. gains for different types of SHC booze, but I will publish it later, after some more spading :) --NightBird 08:38, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

More Spading

Booze
Base
range
Min
Bonus
Max
Bonus
Adventures
Advanced Cocktails 10-14 +1 +1 11, 11, 12, 12, 13, 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 15, 15
black & tan 6-7 +0 +1 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8
boxed champagne 4-8 +1 +1 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9
boxed wine 3 +0 +1 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4
Can of Swiller 2-4 +0 +1 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5
corpse on the beach 19-25 +1 +1 22, 26
cup of primitive beer 2-5 +0 +0 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5
distilled fortified wine 5-6 +0 +1 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7
Glyph 4 wine 5-7 +0 +1 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8
grogtini 22-26 +2 +2 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 26, 26, 26, 27, 28, 28, 28, 28, 28
ice-cold Sir Schlitz 1 +0 +1 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
ice stein 12 +0 +0 12, 12, 12, 12
martini 5-6 +0 +1 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7
Mon Tiki 14-18 +1 +2 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 18, 18, 18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 20, 20
roll in the hay 10-14 +2 +1 12, 12, 13, 13, 15
Supernova Champagne 7-12 +0 +1 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13
white lightning 5-10 +1 +1 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10, 11

Going to spend the next while dumping data into this. No other gain modifiers, just Blender. --TechSmurf 02:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

  • Interesting spading. I have a theory, not sure if it's mathematically justified. However, I think that Blender adds adventures in a probabilistic fashion, sort of similar to the way Ode works. If a drink gives 1 adventures, then it has a 10% chance of adding +1 adventure. If a drink gives 2 adventures, it has a 20% chance of adding +1 adventures. If a drink gives 9 adventures, it has a 90% chance of adding +1. If a drink gives 10 adventures, it has a 100% chance of adding 1 adventure, 0% of adding an additional +1. If a drink gives 11 adventures, it has a 100% chance of adding 1, and a 10% chance of adding an additional 1 adventure.. so on and so forth. Maybe someone better with numbers can take a look and see if that makes sense. Note that the range doesn't matter, only the actual amount given when the drink is consumed. So if a drink has a range of 4-8 adventures, if it gives 4 adventures base, it has a 40% chance of adding +1, but if it gives 8 adventures when consumed, it has an 80% chance of adding +1. --MindlessGames 05:07, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
    • Playing with some of the data collected, with that theory...
      • boxed wine- 16 occurrences of 3 adv, 3 occurrences of 4: 15.8% bonus adventure rate (30% expected)
      • ice-cold Sir Schlitz- 46 occurrences of 1 adv, 3 occurrences of 2: 6.1% bonus adventure rate (10% expected)

--TechSmurf 09:04, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Can I recommend trying an ice stein next? They were fixed to work with Ode, so I'm hoping they should work here. I ask, because I think if I'm right about how this works, you should get 12 or 15 as results (no 13 or 14), with more 15s than 12s? (Feel free to also ignore this advice...if you do, just delete this comment. I won't mind.)--Foggy 05:47, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

  • Either the ice stein isn't affected, or your theory isn't quite right. Or I need more samples. --TechSmurf 06:56, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
    • I'd say one of the first two is the case. Dang.--Foggy 13:03, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

A year ago the best theory for opossum/blender was that they increased the food/booze's maxadv by 10%. This still seems accurate. Adventures are calculated by choosing a random integer between min and floor(max). Then, with a (max-floor(max)) chance, add 1. (This is a bad/broken way to use the min and max values, but it's what the game does.) The order is probably database lookup -> opossum/blender -> range chopping -> roll -> modifiers. --Eleron 21:54, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

  • This makes sense. In a very gross "how much was jick smoking" sort of way. Looking at the cup of primitive beer data, it might be an increase of maxadv by 11%. We assume cups of primitive beer are maxadv=4.5, since 4.4 and 4.6 do not fit. So increasing by 10% would be 2-4.95 (2-4 with 95% chance of additional adventure, so you'd only see one 2 every 60 or so drinks). Increasing maxadv by 11% would be 2-4.995 (2-4 with a 99.5% chance of additional adventure, so you'd see one 2 every 600 or so drinks). Increasing by 11% could make sense, given the data observed, but so could 10%. Need more data!. --MindlessGames 04:37, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
    • An increase by 10% makes the most sense, there are too many "2"s observed in the primitive beer data for it to be an 11% increase. --MindlessGames 06:30, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that what's now on the front page is necessarily correct. There are a couple of ways this data could be interpreted:

  • The way you stated, which means all drinks should go from A-B to A-1.1*B
  • That adventures are simply increased by 10%, which means drinks should go from A-B to 1.1A-1.1B
  • That the zodiac sign is affecting quality in some manner

The primary difference between the first two items above are in the bigger drinks. A Mon Tiki for example has a lower bound of 14. Under the first method above, the drink goes from 14-18 to 14-20 (19.8 rounded up). Under the second method above, the drink goes from 14-18 to 15-20 (15.4 and 19.8 rounded up). The difference is in the lower bound. This is more significant for drinks with a lower bound of 22.

Finally, the last item can be proven or disproven even without know how it affects it. Take two items with a similar range of adventures but different levels of drunkenness...these should theoretically have a different quality. Compare results of drinking a lot of them, and see if they compare. (I would recommend distilled fortified wine vs. martinis, since you already have several datapoints for both and there is a noticeable difference between the two). --Foggy 22:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

  • I do see what you're saying. However, let's think about an example. ACs are known to follow S/Q, so this good for us. A quick refresher: ACs have S=4, and Q=5 (since basic booze is Q=1, basic fruit is Q=1, and garnishes are Q=3). Booze crops floor(Q*S-S-4)/2 from both sides. So for an AC, the range is 4-20, and it crops floor(20-4-4)/2 = 6 from both sides, producing the observed range of 10-14.
If Blender increases Q by 10%, then Q becomes 5.5, and the range becomes 4-22, and it'd crop floor(22-4-4)/2 = 7 from both sides, producing the range 11-15 (nice even numbers!). We would see each of these with 20% frequency
If Blender increases post-cropping maxadv by 10%, then the range would be 10-15.4, and we'd observe 10s 10% of the time, 16s 6.66% of the time, and 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 about 16.66% of the time. Unless the increase of maxadv is applied to the pre-cropped value of 20, in which case it becomes indistinguishable from an increase in Q by 10%.
An increase of both (post-cropping) min and max by 10% would be 11-15.4, and would be readily distinguishable. Unless, again, it's applied to the pre-cropped value, in which case it becomes 4.4-22. And there, I have absolutely no idea what'd happen to the decimal on the bottom value.
I know this is a lot of math and numbers getting thrown around. So short answer: Let's drink a lot of ACs and see if we observe any 10s at all, in which case it'd be an increase of the cropped maxadv only. --MindlessGames 13:20, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
    • Short version:
Increase of Q by 10%, we would see 11-15 evenly distributed
Increase of pre-cropped maxadv by 10% is the same as increase of Q by 10%
Increase of cropped maxadv by 10%, we would see some 10s, and we would see 16s
Increase of cropped min and max by 10%, we would see no 10s, and we would see 16s --MindlessGames 13:51, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Database lookup -> opossum/blender -> range chopping -> roll -> modifiers. That's not very easy to describe both accurately and in an easily understandable way unless you describe the weird and broken internal use of minadv/maxadv values, which are not the same as the observed range. I think having a high-level somewhat-sensible description as well as a note that accurately describes the mechanic would be good. --Eleron 15:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry, math and numbers don't frighten me. But I think we do need more data. The ACs would make a good choice, as a 10 would eliminate the possibility that Blender simply adds 10%. Part of my resistance is that most of the other zodiac signs have some element of occasionality to them (Packrat occasionally adds an extra percentage to meat, Wallaby occasionally adds an extra familiar weight, each stat sign works occasioanlly. Marmot may possibly have off and on days, see the discussion page.) Given that, my own theory is that Opossum and Blender each occasionally add 1 to the Quality of the drink before adventures are calculated.

The problem there of course is the relatively weak pool of drinks that we can choose from to get different results. So I think the following would help:

  • Continue to populate results for martini vs. distilled fortified wine. If something is affecting quality, and not adventures per se, it should be evident with these two drinks.
  • I agree with you about drinking more ACs like roll-in-the-hay. Currently we only have 5 results in the chart, and more results would help expand our options.--Foggy 17:24, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I meant for what to put on the main page. The theory that Blender sometimes adds 1 to quality doesn't fit any data, and lots of items aren't based on quality. A 10% increase in maxadv fits the new data, just like the data it was spaded from a year ago. No low-end baseline hi mein results were observed under opossum, only the range you'd expect from +10% maxadv. It's always on. --Eleron 22:58, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Increase maxadv by 10%

It very much so looks like both Blender and Opossum add +10% to the maxadv value of their respective consumables. The following table shows some different types of drinks, what they give with no modifications, and what they will give under Blender.
Booze range chops follow the formula floor(floor(maxadv-minadv-4)/2).

Blender modifications
Drink minadv maxadv chop range Blender maxadv Blender chop Blender range
ACs 4 20 6 10-14.0 22 7 11-15.0
SHCs 4 28 10 14-18.0 30.8 11 15-19.8
TPS drinks 6 42 16 22-26.0 46.2 18 24-28.2
Supernova
Champagne
7 11 0 7-11.0 12.1 0 7-12.1

What this is saying is that under Blender, ACs will give 11-15 uniformly.
SHCs will give 15-19 with an 80% chance of adding an adventure (so you'd see 15s about 1/25 of the time, 20s 1/6 of the time, and 16,17,18,19 about 1/5 of the time).
TPS drinks will give 24-28 uniformly with a 20% chance of adding an adventure. (so you'd see 24 about 1/6 of the time, 29 about 1/25 of the time, and the others 1/5 of the time).
Supernova Champagne will give 7-11 uniformly, with a 10% chance of adding an adventure, so you'd see 7 about 15% of the time, 13 about 1/60 of the time, and the others about 1/6 of the time.--MindlessGames 22:41, 17 October 2009 (UTC)