Talk:Meat vortex

Puff of Annoying

I was under the impression that 'vanishes in a puff of annoying' was a nethack refrence [1]. This itself is a HHGTTG refrence "The throne vanishes in a puff of logic." and the refrence in 31337 scroll. However, a throne vanishing in a puff of logic is much more similar (along with stealing some money - if it refrenced any other of the Nethack throne messages there wouldn't be any question) and annoying to the Meat vortex than God vanishing in a puff of logic. The question remains does anyone know the mind of Jick? --Shagie 18:05, 28 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

• I believe Nethack references HHGTG in this case, or they came up with the phrase indepentally.-Carados 09:11, 23 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)

• Diminishing returns? I just used four of these in a row on a cubist bull and got 150, 53, 53, 4 meat, so I stopped on that one. Next bull I encountered gave 134 for the first vortex, and I did not use the rest. Has anyone else tried figuring out if there is in fact a decreasing rate of return the more you use during one combat? --J12601 17:21, 21 November 2006 (CST)
  • Considering the range is from 1 meat to the maximum meat the monster can drop, you are bound to get a few duds statistically speaking--Vexingthoughts 13:21, 12 February 2007 (CST)
  • A few duds, yes, but I think this may be something worth looking into. I tried using four in the Castle in the Clouds in the Sky, and got 100+ meat the first vortex, then the rest below 30. I adventured again, got 136 meat for the first vortex, then 8 for the next.--Yidda 09:46, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
  • Just used some 100+ Meat Vortex in the Castle in the Clouds in the Sky, while using 25 of them per fight, and i got between 1 and 150~ meat everytime, no sign of diminishing returns--Electro 08:55, 20 May 2007 (CDT)
  • I've noticed this too against Dirty Brigaids 850ish 500ish, 250, 100, than I went and did a Bounty quest and came back too 850ish, than 500ish, than got beaten up, than it stayed at 500ish and went back up, I think spading is definately in order

--Draconova 05:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

• Got a new message on second use against the same monster: "The vortex whirls and whirls, but is unable to extract any more Meat from him." lvl 11 Turtle Tamer, never ascendended against knott yeti. Maybe meat vortex changed to work only once? tried against upgraded ram and with other familiar, same result --Amlethus 17:51, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
  • Isn't that already listed as the last one under "When Used"?--Dehstil (t|c) 18:31, 13 June 2007 (CDT)
    • it didn't say "any meat" at first use, but "any MORE meat" when using a meat vortex the second time. To clarify: I once could use many meat vortexes against the same monster, but not anymore. The last message listed currently appears the first time against a monster not dropping any meat at all, like the snow queen. - Can anyone confirm the change in behavior? --Amlethus 01:53, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
      • I have seen this as well. Against a cubist bull, "The vortex whirls and whirls, but is unable to extract any more Meat from it." --Dayv 10:34, 15 June 2007 (CDT)

Doesn't work against dirty thieving brigands any more

I tried it a few times and I only got 1 meat. I think they've closed off this easy funding route.--TexasDex 05:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• I just did it and got 940. A single Meat is a possible value. --Bagatelle^T/_C 21:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Average vs. Maximum

A long-held misconception about the meat vortex is that the endpoint is the maximum amount of meat that can be dropped. I first spaded this with bunnies ages ago, but recently did this with beanbats and CLEESHed monsters.

• Beanbats gave me an evenly distributed range from 1-34
• CLEESHed monsters gave me an evenly distributed range from 1-10

In both cases, these are the Mval's for these monsters. (Beanbats have an Mval of 34, giving them a meat drop of 28-40. CLEESH monsters have an Mval of 10, giving them a meat drop of 8-12.)

I've been checking this out more lately as a way to spade meat drops for one-time monsters that you can refight if you lose (booty crab, queen filthworm, Daily Dungeon). --Foggy 14:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Some additional data points, more for evidence than anything else:

• Against spiders, 24 vortices yielded 1-5 only, with no 6s. (Mval = 5)
• Against sandworms, 51 vortices yielded 10 drops of 1-50, 12 drops of 51-100, 13 drops of 101-150, 5 drops of 151-200, 11 drops of 201-250, and none 251-300. I'm using this bunching method, as the number of vortices and drum machines I would need to see every value from 1-250 would be excessive. Mval on the sandworm is 250.

--Foggy 14:35, 19 June 2011 (UTC)