Talk:Main Page/archive

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April 25, 2006 Archive

Featured Articles

Do we need more? Like maybe use a featured article once every year... Bwahahaha!
--Vreck 09:13, 13 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Moon phases

moon phases are wrong. they show up with a small band of white, while in-game they're completely black! Please sign your posts! Twopeak!

  • They're correct. You need to hit the refresh button a few times. Or, hit the refresh link at the bottom of the main page. --Alpaca 17:39, 5 Nov 2005 (MST)

I think there's a slight lapse at rollover, when the moons change in the Kingdom but the Wiki is slightly behind. Not completely sure of this, but it may explain why the above poster saw the previous day's moon phases. --Poochy 22:48, 6 Nov 2005 (MST)

A tiny issue

  • Something appears to have gone terribly wrong during the move. See if you can figure out what. 14:33, 18 November 2005 (Central Standard Time)
    • We are actively trying to fix everything we can. Please provide specific details about your problem. --Alpaca 21:18, 21 November 2005 (Central Standard Time)
      • I, er, it would appear I posted that previous message from an IP. It seems to have been fixed, now. Banjooie 22:58, 21 November 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Uploading images ??

  • I notice the upload a file link has gone missing... --TDG 19:36, 21 November 2005 (Central Standard Time)
    • This is because uploading is disabled. The link will be back when it's re-enabled, which, as a matter of fact, should be very, very soon. --Alpaca 21:20, 21 November 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Additions to the wiki?

  • I was wondering if two things could be added to the wiki:
    • On the area pages, a 'possible items' subsection that has all the items possible from the area, similar to the one on my userpage.
    • On the items pages, under the Combat Drops subsection, a list of the monsters that drop the item, similar to the example on my talk page.

--Flatluigi 19:49, 3 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

  • In principle, I really don't have an opinion on either of these changes. In practice, though, I think they have some issues. I think the possible items subsection not only looks ugly, but is also unnecessary. First of all, is it really that difficult to scroll down the page and see the items listed in the adventure summary templates? But even if discussing this in terms of convenience, I don't honestly believe that such a section would make anything easier. If I wanted to know where a widget dropped, I would probably just search for widget, and read off the name of the zone from the itme page, not traipse around location pages hoping to find my item somewhere. Let's say I was about to become level 10, and was researching what I was going to encounter in the Penultimate Fantasy Airship. In that situation, I'd want comprehensive information, which the established template provieds very well. As far as your second suggestion is concerned, I think this would clutter up item pages unnecessarily. If I want a widget, I need to adventure in widgetworld anyway, and I can't pick and choose whether to fight a widgepottamus or the widgetworld janitor. Or, if I was interested in the various widgetworld monsters I would encounter one way or another, I'd just click the link to the widgetworld zone page, which, once again, would give me a compact, comprehensive listing. My greatest issue with both of these ideas, though, is the sheer amount of work they'd require to implement for such a paltry result. There are extraordinarily many zone pages, not to mention the metric fuckton of item pages. Introducing a new standard would require, in order that the wiki might remain professional, the editing of over 1300 pages. The results don't substantiate the effort. --Alpaca 17:35, 4 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Alright then, sorry. --Flatluigi 17:46, 5 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Actually, now that we have things that can affect the frequency of combat vs. non-combat adventures, there can be a certain amount of usefulness to knowing whether a given item is available from combat/non-combat adventures in a given area so you can decide which to favour if either.--Yiab 07:08, 12 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Wikipedia news of some possible interest

Associated Press, about 4:25 pm PST (an hour ago as I submit this)

"Wikipedia... is tightening submission rules after a prominent journalist complained that an article falsely implicated him in the Kennedy assassinations.

"Wikipedia will now require users to register before they can create articles, Jimmy Wales, founder of the St. Petersburg, Fla.-based Web site, said Monday. People who modify existing articles will still be able to do so without registering."

Full details available here: Wikipedia Tightens Submission Rules

-- Old Ned 19:25, 5 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
  • See? We did this, and stricter, a long time ago! We're ahead of the curve! OWNED! --Alpaca 21:11, 7 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Some other references needed

  • Before ascension rolled out, I'm sure that Jick/Skullhead mentioned something on the radio about Oxygenarian and Boozetafarian being references to something. Somebody needs to look that up and write it down on those pages. --Alpaca 21:11, 7 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
    • For oxy, I think there's some kind of weird religious movement called 'breathearian', or something like that, which basically follows the Oxygenarian thing of never eating, or drinking. I know it's misspelled, and I'm not certain how it is spelled, so I'll just make the note here. -- Neongrey 22:00, 14 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
  • Is this the sort of thing you were thinking of? I'm sure there must be more info about it out there, but since it's such a huge term in the KoL world, that's about 90% of the results in google....--jin 22:33, 14 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

I don't know where else to put this. I recommend that we change the link on ads (in the left pane) from pointing to the ad page to pointing at the ad's actual site. Perhaps the text on the ad page could be changed to be the ALT text for the image. Alternatively, we change the order of the ads on the page, perhaps. The problem that I see currently (because of the server I am guessing): when you click an ad, it brings you to the ad page whereupon it shows only the first ten or so ads before hanging. A few times I have gotten the entire page to load but then it stops showing images about halfway down the page. --Pastamancer5 01:23, 19 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

  • At some point in the perhaps-nearby-future I'll see about breaking the page up a bit or something... When I put together the current system I didn't anticipate so very many ads being active at any one time... But it doesn't look like the number's going to drop significantly any time soon. Every time a couple expire, a couple more get added, and some have expiration dates years in the future... Don't hold your breath, but I'll look at it sometime soon, when/if an idea/inspiration hits me for how to do it. --jin 09:51, 19 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
  • Also, (last time I checked), the ads did link to their pages immediately. It's just that the vast majority of ads don't have associated webpages. --Alpaca 14:54, 25 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

Missing PayPal Link

Once you log in, there is no more link to donate. Just because I'm a registered user and a contributor doesn't mean I don't want to help out too. ~_^

<3 Tuffy

  • I'm logged in and I see it..... Strangeness. --jin 16:01, 2 February 2006 (Central Standard Time)

October 32 Archive

Archiv'd everything from the previous archive up to today. --Alpaca 21:09, 1 Nov 2005 (MST)

Total Revision

Can we get a link to Special:Wantedpages somewhere, so that the most glaring red-link errors can somehow be fixed before moving on to Needs Work? --Alpaca 19:58, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Actually, I suspect that the Category:Needs Work is the best place for people to start. Currently, out of the 27 Wanted Pages, I think 24 of them are users or clans. Two of the other three are links from talk pages to dead articles. The remaining wanted page is for the Off-hand balloon, which should have a page as soon as we have something to go on. I think there's rarely anything here that truly needs work. --Gymnosophist 20:14, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Can we get a new featured article? Please? Even a post-ascension familiar from a different sign. --Id the Mildly Confused 17:18, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Templates can be created by anyone, so feel free to write one, and we'll be happy to add it to the rotation. --Snickles 18:32, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I added two of them; I have a lot more ideas that will be turned into features as time allows. --Pastamancer5 10:01, 2 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Thanks to everyone who improved the front page in my absence... Having no Internet is rough. --Snickles 11:35, 9 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • The moon phase templates that were broken are not broken any longer.Doppelheathen 10:18, 6 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I'm thinking of giving the front page a rather major makeover soon. Any blanket suggestions on sections that should be included? --jin 22:07, 14 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • How about a link to a Site Map? -- Baltar 00:09, 15 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

That example below looks good. How on earth does it work? Will we have to keep updating the moons and other data and such on it?--jin 00:11, 25 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

New Front Page Example

Visu wiKi oL

You gain 22,533 meat

Welcome to Visual KoL's Wiki! Our hope is that KoL players will now be able to quickly add new information to the wiki, resulting in more community involvement in creation of fan pages.

Browse: Ascension | Clans | Locations | Players | Quests | Site Map

Today's Featured Article:
{{featuredarticle {{CURRENTDOW}}}}

Today in history:
2009: The second Clan Dungeon (The Slime Tube) is now available to any clan with a basement.

2008: The guard bugbears in Degrassi Knoll no longer go pantless. Or pantsless.

2006: It's Tuesday! There's a new smithing recipe. Also a new shield.

2004: The Inventory page now keeps track of the last section selected, and automatically loads that section.

So you'd like to:


Visual KoL Forum   •   Kingdom of Loathing   •   KoL Official Forum   •   Coldfront fan site

If you find Visual KoL useful, please consider making a donation.

Leave suggestions for this page here.


It's mostly set up in templates. Unfortunately, hardly any of it can be dynamic without lots of work. Notably, the featured article, quicklinks, and moon phase must be changed by hand. If we go with something similar, it would be worthwhile to set up a Main Page/upkeep page that has a set of reminders on what to do to keep the front page in order. I'll set up some instructions tomorrow on how to work with the templates. Also, editing the sections of the talk page cuts the example off in the middle for some reason (I might have simply left in an errant tag). --Snickles 00:16, 25 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • It would be reasonably easy to put the featured article on an automatic, rotating schedule. Wikipedia has two variables we can use for this, for periods of a week or a month. That will at least automate the change, although requiring a template for each day, and we need to set up for exactly 7 or 30/31/32 day periods. Which is really not a problem. We could also do the quicklink section like this, although that is a fairly ugly method. The moons are more problematic. The best solution I can come up with is to create a template for each moon phase (1-16) and cycle through them by changing a single number on the main page. It's simpler than moving comment tags around, but requires sixteen small templates and still is not automatic. What we really need is the ability to define an auto-incrementing variable of arbitrary size. With that, making the front page entirely dynamic would be simple. --Snickles 17:24, 25 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • With the "change date" button you can make {{Template:Moons}} a link to the sixteen moon-phase templates - something like this:

  • There is no actual link to the main Visual KoL site. This seems strange. Is there room in the links section at the bottom? The Phearsome Phantom
  • The people responsible for this oversight have been sacked. --Poopsmithers 14:46, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)


<!-- Accurate for (day) (month) -->

That way anyone can change the date because the (locked) front page itself won't be edited. Just replace the # with 1-16 and (day) and (month) with the date for which the moon phase is accurate. Certainly it's not ideal, but if a better alternative isn't found this will at least let people other than the few admins update the moon phase. --Poopsmithers 19:01, 25 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

With the random selection template... I envision putting all of the quicklinks as choices, and calling it five (or whatever times) from the appropriate panel. This has a certain elegance to it, offset by the small chance of getting a repeated link. We might want to still use the 7-30-365 progression for featured articles; it seems as though the featured article should be a little more stable. Moon phases have been reduced to a single digit change per day. If someone could script a function that returned the remainder of DAYOFYEAR / 16, we could rig something automatic up. Alternatively, if someone could script a variable that auto-increments at midnight, with a range of 1-16. With all of this in place, all we need is more content. Summaries for featured articles are somewhat annoying to read, but with so many members, and if we only need to increase the article inventory at a rate of one per day, it shouldn't be too hard. Quicklinks are simple, and can be whipped up in minutes, but add a lot to the design. Comments welcome. --Snickles 19:47, 26 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Just wanted to say that this looks like a great idea and a terrific approach to highlighting content. Great job! --Gymnosophist 01:18, 28 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • Thanks for the comments. If you can think of any ways to make the page better, feel free to do so. Also, I forgot to put a link to my little page explaining some of the stuff. So, here it is. --Snickles 13:12, 28 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

All of the date templates are now preceeded by "DATE." Perhaps they can be filtered from the Special:Templates output. --Snickles 14:11, 27 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • I don't really have much of a clue how to automate things more than they already are, but I've set up what I hope will be a useful page: Featured Articles. It will help with things like picking articles for the week and figuring out what to write for more featured articles. As a side note, the days of the week are numbered 0-6, not 1-7.--Yiab 03:51, 7 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Just a thought, should the Today in history: section be retitled to Today in KoL history:, so not to be confused with / interpreted as Today in Visual Wiki history:. On a side note, should the events be listed in reverse chronological order, i.e., newest first? Today's is oldest first and I thought another day was newest first, I'm just rootin' for consistency. :-) --JRSiebz 10:36, 11 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • My mistake there - I was into September before I realized the few existing ones were in chronological order instead of reverse chronological. I felt it was more useful of my time to just finish the way I'd been going rather than create a 2:1 split in the year or go back and fix the pages already written.--Yiab 07:17, 12 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • A little late to the conversation. I think that reverse chronological order would be better, and before I realized Yiab had done the entire set of KoL history pages (Thanks, and nice work), I was changing the history pages back to chronological order. In my opinion, this is a minor style issue and if we decide to continue the RCO, it can simply be done on a day to day basis. If someone gets a glimpse of a chronologically ordered history template, it won't scar them. --Snickles 08:35, 22 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

If it would be possible to make the 'crossbow' in the featured article a link to Category:Crossbows like thus crossbow it would make it easier to click through (rather than clicking on the link and getting to a picture) --Shagie 20:16, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • As far as I know, it isn't possible to embed links in pictures within MediaWiki. I hope someone can prove me wrong, but I've scoured the Internet and found nothing. --Snickles 20:36, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I figured out a way, you make the image redirect to a page. See Help:Navigational Image. Here's the prototype Image:Crossbow.gif&redirect=no. Note: This makes this image link to the same page no matter where the image is, so it will effect all instances of the image. --JRSiebz 20:56, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • When an image redirects to a page within the same project, the image seems to be added to the top of the page as a side effect. Hmm, so i might have to undo the few images I changed. For example, I tried to turn the clan hall images on the Category:Clan Stuff page into links, but when you follow those links (via the pictures), the side effect becomes apparent. Hmm, --JRSiebz 21:18, 24 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I do realize this is very much a styalistic thing. If you look at you will see that first text to the right of the featured article image is a link to the article itself rather than a link at the bottom (or somewhere else) that links to it. If this link was provided, people would be less inclined to try clicking on the image. --Shagie 00:21, 25 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Yay Hallowhatever! I've been calling it that all day. --Barnaby36 19:53, 31 Oct 2005 (MST)

I'd like to point out, that it is October 32 today (see Announcements on KoL) -- Residium, 32 Oct 2005 or 1. Nov. 2005

  • While the announcements pane on the wiki does account for that, the rest of the wiki actually resides in a far-off, distant land known only as RL. There, today's date is November first. --Alpaca 20:33, 1 Nov 2005 (MST)

Auto-Determining Moon Phase

  • Is there a way to embed php in wiki pages, specifically the uber-wiki-admins Jinya and Thraeryn. Because it can be determined in a short php script. It's a pian for someone to have to remember to change the moon phase everyday, sometimes it never gets changed, or accidentally changed twice ;-) or more! --JRSiebz 21:08, 31 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
So here's the quick script I wrote, (it can be done shorter, but I wanted it to be well annotated)


//reference date (phase 1)
$baseInSecs = mktime(0, 0, 0, 7, 16, 2005);

$today = getdate();
$todayInSecs = $today[0];
//to pretend that today is a different date (for testing), alter next line
//$todayInSecs = mktime(0, 0, 0, 10, 16, 2005);

$secondsInDay = 86400;
$numOfMoonPhases = 16;

$diffInSecs = $todayInSecs - $baseInSecs;

//difference since reference date in days, force integer
$diffInDays = (int) ($diffInSecs / $secondsInDay);

//divide number of days past by number of phases and return remainded
//(has the effect of removing as many full cycles of 16 as possible then giving what's left)
//add 1 because remainder will be between 0 and 15, and 0 is phase 1 like our base date
$moonPhase = ($diffInDays % $numOfMoonPhases) + 1;

print $moonPhase;

  • if the server is on EST, for a more exact phase, the reference phase 1 ( $baseInSecs = mktime(0, 0, 0, 7, 16, 2005); ) could be changed to ( $baseInSecs = mktime(22, 30, 0, 7, 15, 2005); ) because rollover currently starts 10:30 PM EST. If the wiki server is not on EST, the times could be adjusted accordingly. (I think it's not EST, based on when the date on the front page changes itself)--JRSiebz 21:49, 31 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I've been poking around mediawiki documentation, I stumbled upon an article on Customization, but the link "Extensions defining a new wiki tag" was yet undefined. Poppycock. I was hoping for an example, <moonphase></moonphase> seemed so close ;-) heh. Here's a another link, MediaWiki Extensions --JRSiebz 21:33, 31 Aug 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • Would it be of interest to anyone besides myself to put the KoL Calender date up with the moon phases? For example, I know that we're a few days into Dougtember, but I'd really like to make sure that I have sufficient levels and other such preparedness before the next St Sneaky Pete's Day.--Cyferpunk 10:24, 15 Sep 2005 (Eastern Daylight Time)
    • I had put together a Firefox scriptlet some time ago that does moons/KoL date/and days until stat day (well, it has a moons variable that can be leveraged). Perhaps that can be of some help...and if we can ever get true dynamic pages, we'd just have to translate from javascript to whatever code. --Fryguy9 19:48, 21 Sep 2005 (MDT)
    • I would like that. We should also make the moons link to the moon phases article. And the date should naturally lead to Calendar. And by we, I mean the powers that be. --Eis271828 22:55, 02 Oct 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Main page updating problems

  • The main page still says it's the 6th, and hasn't changed to the appropraite article/history either. it seems the main page doesn't update itself unless someone changes something relating to it!! I assume the main page gets cached, and then to save server time the cached page is displayed/sent to viewers and the cache gets refreshed when a change is made. So should the main page be set to not cache or at least have the cache emptied/refreshed/rebuilt once daily? --JRSiebz 19:19, 7 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I just forced it to update by making a trivial change. --JRSiebz 19:25, 7 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • It's a known problem with transclusion and templates. Fortunately, there is a purge command for just that reason. Unfortunately, it has to be accessed by URL, although this isn't a huge problem. Just stick a link to it [1] somewhere near the bottom of the main page, and anyone can correct it. --Aardvark 07:58, 11 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Page Additions

Seal Clubber
Turtle Tamer
Disco Bandit
Accordion Thief
  • As the Classes template {{Classes}} seem to be A Very Useful Thing™, would the editors, in their infinite wisdom, be willing to add it to the frontpage? --R3nh03k 19:23, 19 Sep 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • I don't think a template like that belongs on the front page. Maybe a variable link to a page about classes, but that template belongs on the class pages alone. --jin 00:07, 30 Sep 2005 (MDT)


As everybody who can find this site must know by now, the forums are down. Perhaps it would be appropriate to remove the link from the navigation toolset on the left? --Aardvark 03:03, 27 Sep 2005 (MDT)

  • Speak of the devil... ;-) --JRSiebz 03:26, 27 Sep 2005 (MDT)
  • Allrighty! I didn't realize it was only a temporary thing. --Aardvark 04:46, 27 Sep 2005 (MDT)

Old Archive

Recent Changes should be Recentchanges. --Snickles 02:00, 11 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • There is no such typo. I demand you rescind that comment immediately!  :P  ;) --jin 12:48, 11 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

This page needs more links on it. Anyone have any suggestions on what folks would want from the front page? --jin 09:46, 19 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Accessories!
  • Done! (whew, that took a while)--Yiab 21:13, 27 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • Quest spoilers (once they're more completed), weapons (by power), hats (by power), pants (by power), a page entitled "what the &^$# is going on here?" might be nice...--Yiab 14:19, 20 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • perhaps a link to the chat page would be appropriate once it is more complete.--Yiab 22:26, 30 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • Could there be an 'Accomplishments' page with a listing of the possible accomplishments and links from there to how to get those?

--Atlantima 17:46, 29 May 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

What is with the internal brackets [[like this]] that link using index.php and go to empty pages? The links work when you manually remove the index.php from the address bar. I don't know much about Wiki. Perhaps the adjustment with the links did this? - Vysion 6/3/05

  • Thrae decided he didn't like the index.php being in every address, so he took steps to remove it throughout. I'm not sure what that entailed, but it has produced a few broken links. I'll see if I can get him to fix it soon. --jin 18:50, 4 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • If you come across non-working links, edit the page, add a period or space or other unobtrusive character, then save. The links should then work. Afterward, remove the characters that you added, if you'd be so kind! --Thræryn 20:56, 4 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Regarding spoiling of post-ascension items: The Item Number Thread. I suggest we get an official policy regarding the descriptions of post-ascension items and the spoiling of the specified item numbers in the next two weeks.--Yiab 19:54, 8 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • I'm not sure how we could do it... Can we make 'spoiler' tags for Wiki links? Got any suggestions? --jin 21:42, 8 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • Do we even need to bother? This is a spoiler site, after all - if you're worried about seeing spoilers, then you shouldn't be here in the first place!

--Pandalet 10:24, 12 July 2005 (BST)

I'm convinced I could write a far more concise post than the current somewhat disorganised and confusing one on Ascension. At the moment, "Ascension" appears to be used both for the full lifetime of a character from level 1 up to beating the Sorceress, and for the event that your character can go through after beating her.

This is confusing: I propose "Incarnation" for the lifetime, and "Ascension" for the event at the end of an "incarnation". May I have permission to submit a less confusing description to the page describing Ascension?) -- JLE (01.40 British Summer Time, 10 June 2005)

  • It's a wiki. You don't necessarily need 'permission' Just do it and make improvements as you go. --jin 20:33, 9 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

I think it'd be a good idea to have a wiki discussion thread on the forums here. Maybe one for wiki discussion/suggestions and one for wiki help? Using Talk isn't the best means for a discussion ;-) --JRSiebz 21:16, 15 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

  • Wish granted. *poof* I set up a forum titled Wiki-tastic, and any and all discussion of wiki issues can go there. These talk pages are rather cumbersome at times. Enjoy! --jin 00:50, 16 Jun 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

No "trophies" page ? (At least none linked to from the main page).

  • There should be a link on the main page to the Effects category. --Village Idiot 14:29, 14 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • How about a link to the Monster Compendium. Not many people know about it and it would help get it done quicker. --Fusor1 17:46, 14 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)
  • how about a link to Basics on the main page or something? It takes me forever to manually browse to some of those things, like the classes/etc.(sometimes i try typing them in and don't get the right page) pretty please?

--Arilakon 20:01, 15 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)

Bug/error thingy

In am empty talk page, if the person clicks on the '+' (add new section) button next to 'edit', whatever is put in the title does not show up on the page. Fixness, anyone? --Superiority 00:26, 2 Jul 2005 (Central Daylight Time)