Talk:Jumpsuited Hound Dog

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I have a multi with this familiar now. Took long enough to collect the lucre. =) If anyone wants to pass along a good spading methodology to determine what it does, just PM me in game. (OxyTheMoron) That multi has a plexiglass pith helmet and plastic pumpkin bucket if that helps. --CrimsonMirage 10:00, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

We know the exact forumla for the regular fairies over 20 pounds. So take your hound dog at any consistent weight over 20 and over, and adventure in the beanbats for 150-200 turns. Repeat at the next weight. Make sure that you don't use any effects (equipment is fine) that give +item drops during this spading, and that you don't equip a navel ring or mayflower. Basically, we want to keep your +item drop constant and well known. We can then compare your drop rates to the expected with a fairy, and get a rough idea of the item drop bonus.
This will give us the item drop bonus accurate to +/- 5%, but is simple and gives a rough idea of what we're talking about. More testing can be used to narrow the bonus down to the exact value, but that is longer and more involved.--QuantumNightmare 10:52, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

How does anyone know what this item turns into with the hunter giving only one lucre(or whatever) a day?GREENAlDEN555 19:55, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Good question. Did a Dev starts adding things to the wiki? --Sparksol 01:12, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
Well, they may have just started plugging in numbers into the familiar description page.--Olaf 01:16, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
Has anyone considered spending some time at the Arena with a Chameleon? That might have produced some blue suede shoes, which would lead to this. --Southwest 01:18, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
Actually, I take that back. That would result in the Hound Dog's effects, not its information.
However, Jick and the devsters did mention that there would be a way to speed up something that would seem tedious-- I have a sneaking suspicion they may have been talking about this. --Southwest 01:20, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
The original edit description by Zoombini was: Got details from desc_familiar. --Starwed 10:42, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Since the haiku refers to dancing, I think it's safe to say at least part of its ability is Fairy-type. With familiars, dancing is always items, winking is for meat, and smiling is for stats. --FlawlessWalrus 10:16, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

Makes sense for Fairy-type, as the Bounty Hunter outfit deals with + item drops Nagyss 23:58, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
    • How do we, or you, or anyone other than the devs know that the haiku is even real?GREENAlDEN555 19:55, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

From what I heard on the official boards, it acts like an item drop familiar, and doesn't appear to have any other appreciable, or atleast as of yet discernable, effect.--Thrower of stones 20:50, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Given the pain in obtaining one, I would personally guess that it could be a more effective gravy fairy. However, with the change in familiar formula spading the effects would be hard because you would also need to use a fairy to see if the same amount of drops are generated. --CluckyB 22:32, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Well, I did pick up some shoes to use with my Comma, so I'll put some combat messages here for now.
<name> does a couple of karate moves, then swivels his hips and gyrates his pelvis. --Sparksol 23:41, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

This didn't see to help much in acquiring bounty items...and it's still the only combat message I've found so far.--Sparksol
Well, that's cause the bounty items *always* drop, and the number you need for the bounty is basically 40 turns/encounter rate. So, for, say, the 20 tubes of greasepaint, you encounter a clown about half the time. Anything else can basically be chalked up to RNG luck. --Jimfromtx 02:41, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

I was giving this some thought. Sure, the dancing might imply a gravy fairy-like ability, but given it came from the Bounty Hunter Hunter, someone known for tracking down people and creatures (or, well, tracking down someone else who does the same), plus considering the effect of the odor extractor, AND recalling that it's a hound dawg (who may or may not be cryin' all the time), I'm thinking it might have an effect of increasing the chances of specific monster encounters, or combat adventures in general. But given the hatchling's description, it might not do that until it's a certain weight. Though I don't know what mechanism would be in place to select a monster for it to track (like how the odor extractor does it). Can anyone test for combat adventure increases with the chameleon? CaptainSpam 23:45, 1 July 2007 (CDT)

The earliest one can get it is NOT in October, but earlier than that, depending on how fast one can ascend. If someone was able to string together back-to-back 3 day runs, for example, it would only take 66 days to get this familiar as opposed to the non-ascender's 100 days.--Dalgar 19:49, 6 July 2007 (CDT)

  • Searching for other messages with cat monsters... none on White Lions, Mummified Cats, or Iiti Kitty, Black Panthers, taco cats...looking for more. -keineangst--Keineangst 00:43, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Duffkiligan's data

  • Duffkiligan is doing testing with a 30-pound Comma Chameleon equipped with the Blue-Suade Shoes. Still in ronin but any donations of shoes helps a lot and any information you might have on it also helps. I'm testing it until I find out what it does.
  • Duffkiligan's notes:
  * Item-drop increaser is doubtful, but still possible.
  * Stat-gains is also doubtful, but still possible.
  * Since it's a bounty hunter familiar, and a dog it is possible that it increases combat rate.

dalgar, you are forgeting that getting the bounty takes about 40 adventures. Doing a 3 day run is hard enough in NS13 I dont think its anywhere near possible if you are doing the BHH quest as well. Russianspy1234 20:27, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

Just a suggestion here:

Since the current theory is the tome gives us a skill-based version of the oder injector ability, one theorizes that, if the effect of the dog does increase the likellyhood of injector monsters appearing, it'd do the same thing with the skill, too. But it'll be a while before anyone finds out.--Rikmach 04:26, 5 August 2007 (CDT)

  • DiscoNeckTed's Notes:
I’ve run some spading turns with a Comma Chameleon Hound Dog. 

8-bit realm 55/60lb (yeah, I let green tongue run out a few times) zero drop modifiers.

I tagged Bloopers with odor Injectors, and only counted results with both On The Trail active, and the Chameleon mimicking a Hound Dog.

116 turns, 55 Bloopers (47.4%). 165 pixels. My percentage hovered around 50% Bloopers the whole time, with the first 30 white pixels achieved in 15 turns. Consistent 3 Pixels from every monster.

I then tagged Bloopers without a Hound. 114 turns, 47 Bloopers (41%), Misc. Pixels (less than 3 per)

  * Without doubt an Item Drop increaser.
  * Increases effect of Odor Injector (On The Hunt).
  • I don't think that's nearly enough data to be sure of increasing the effect of the odor extractor. --Thrower of stones 09:58, 6 August 2007 (CDT)
  • True, the sample is too small to be definitive..yet. The methodology is clean, and I'll continue to add data and recalculate the findings.--DiscoNeckTed 16:14, 7 August 2007 (CDT)
  * Another 75 adv. of data, with 39/36 bloopers. 
  * Current Total: 94/191 (49.2%)Bloopers. 38.1% total increase.

ToS Data

  • I'm testing if it functions at all as a combat++. From the Treasury:

Familiar Weight 25

Total adventures 54

9 noncombats

22 Guards dropping 3 shirts and one pair of pants

23 bean counters dropping 5 stacks and 6 beans

Based on a 15% combat rate, expected noncombats would be 7.6. Thus, it almost certainly isn't a combat++, although this is a very small sample.

Expected drops of stacks and beans are both 3, indicating +items. Lack of visor easily attributed to RNG (although same could be true of stacks and beans)

Expected shirts is 1.5. Thus, again, indicates +items. All of the rest are rare enough that lack of drops means nothing.

So, I agree, it probably is a +items, and almost certainly not +combats. Which means its secondary feature probably is helping when tracking.--Thrower of stones 00:27, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

DNT Data

I'll be testing "Super-Fairy" +15% Gravy Fairy--DiscoNeckTed 13:47, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

  • Testing 45lb Gravy Fairy Vs. 45lb Comma-Hound in the treasury. Zero modifiers.
  • (1) 100 adventures each; Gravy drops 33 items, Hound drops 55. +25%.
  • (2) 100 adventures each; Gravy drops 44 items, Hound drops 53. +.09%.

Also running a 50lb Hound (100% Fairy drop) in the beanbat chamber, with Wasabi sinuses (-10% item drop). Normal Fairy should be 90% bean drop rate.--DiscoNeckTed 14:24, 9 August 2007 (CDT)

  • (1) 50 adv. yielded 50 beans.

Dropped weight down to 45lb each, with Wasabi sinuses effect.

  • (A) Hound, 135 adv. yielded 135 beans. 100%
  • (B) Gravy fairy 50 adv. yielded 46 beans.

Hound has a higher item finding rate than a Fairy.

Does anyone know how the Dog compares to a Green Pixie? - Asinine 03:20, 22 July 2008 (CDT)

NS11 Fairy Formula?

Maybe the jumpsuited hound-dog uses the pre NS-13 non-scaling familiar formula?

Hound Table based on fairy at 1.25*weight

Weight Item drop bonus (%) Jumpsuited Hound Dog Item drop bonus (%)
1 5.4 6.78
5 18.6 23.23
10 30.5 38.06
15 40.7 50.9
20 50.2 62.71
25 59.1 73.85
30 67.6 84.53
35 75.9 94.84
40 83.9 104.88
45 91.7 114.69
50 99.4 124.3
60 114.4 143.06
70 129.0 161.31
80 143.3 179.16
90 157.4 196.7
100 171.2 213.95

I'm not familiar with wiki editing, so I'll let someone else integrate it. CHAMELEON_D_H 11:50, 24 August 2008 (CDT)

This table is incorrect. If hound dog = 1.25 fairy, shouldn't a 25 lb fairy = 20lb hound? And shouldn't a 50lb fairy = a 40lb hound? I believe whoever made this table multiplied the % by 1.25 rather than the weight. --Pantsless 00:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)


Did a bit of amateur spading in the Cake-Shaped Arena: No apparent weakness, tested at same weight vs:

  • 23lb Gravy Fairy: evenly matched/5exp wins on Scavenger Hunt and Hide and Seek, 2-3 exp wins on Obstacle Course and Cage Match (Fairy's weakness)
  • 24lb Angry Goat: evenly matched on Obstacle Course and Hide and Seek,
  • 30lb Stab Bat: evenly matched on Scavenger Hunt, 2-3exp Obstacle Course wins

Goat and Bat strong/weak events went as expected - About 20 fights on each and an extra 20 on the goat to check the obstacle course, it didn't seem to get any worse. (Someone let me know if I'm doing it wrong)--Punicron 11:18, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

Combat Frequency Effect

  • OK, a couple of questions on the Combat Frequency-affecting effect. First off, where is the spading that was done for this (or other confirmation)? I realize it was probably somewhere like HCO or the Radio Show, but there is no mention of it here. Secondly, is the effect like that of the Exotic Parrot, where it provides a step-function by weight (so at 6 pounds, you get your first %), or is it like most familiars behave, where the 1% per 6 pounds is divided evenly among those six pounds? If it is the first, is it rounded up or rounded down (that is, does it provide 1% at 1 pound and 2% at 7, or is it 1% at 6lb, none before, and 2% at 12)?--Wildfire393 21:41, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
  • All the spading was done on the AFH forums (in other words this is a confirmed effect). And it's a step function: +0% from 1 to 5 pounds, +1.0% from 6 to 11 pounds... and so on.--QuantumNightmare 23:31, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
  • Yeah, I can't find the exact post on the AFH forums that proves this feature of the hound, but I'm assuming it was spaded by carefully adjusting combat rate and ML and then examining the number of "and on"s in Random Lack of an Encounter. Which I assume is now just the de facto way to spade combat rate modifiers. --Prestige 17:19, 29 October 2007 (CDT)
  • Prestige is correct. I first properly spaded the number of "and on's" by adjusting my ML in steps of +1ML, which gave me control of my effective noncombat rate to within 0.2%. With this almost exact knowledge, I spaded out the combat modifying effect. The post with all my puppy spading is found here: Old methods were good for most noncombat spading, but this "and on" method AFH developed is by far the quickest and most accurate.--QuantumNightmare 18:12, 29 October 2007 (CDT)