Talk:Hardcore IOTM Analysis

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Why is this even a thing. We already have analysis of the Mr. Skills and familiars in a hardcore context. This page literally adds 3 IOTMs that don't fall into either category.--Toffile 05:42, 2 July 2011 (CEST)

Uhhh, making the most out of your Mr. A's? I don't know, it's pretty redundant since IOTM equipments are unusable in HC. --JohnAnon 06:09, 3 July 2011 (CEST)

I have also no idea what the philosophy behind this is, since we already have Hardcore Skill Analysis & Hardcore Familiar Analysis. I guess it could be used as a shopping-list for people who are saving for an iotm and are unsure what to buy, if said group of players actually does exist.
But I vaguely remember someone wrote a similar page before. There is a recurring discussion, whether or not the iotm-skills actually belong into the Hardcore Skill Analysis and where to put things like Pumpkin Seed Catalog, Telescope, Rainbow Gravitation and Vent Rage Gland that are marked HP without ascending. Maybe Alpha Omicron could create a wiki-page for those (just a suggestion). --Yatsufusa 09:34, 3 July 2011 (CEST)

Yes, it was called Hardcore item analysis. And no one ever bothered to edit it or much less keep it updated after it was created. Just like this page will.--Toffile 10:19, 3 July 2011 (CEST)
I would agree this is mostly just a shopping list that has very limited use/interest by the community. I think it would be slightly more useful if anything actually linked to here besides the skills analysis page. This might be worth keeping if it was somehow either linked to/from or maybe incorporated into the Hardcore Strategy guide (which also needs revision/update). A question, that is better asked elsewhere, is are we seeing a reduction or change in interest with regards to HC due to new karma system? Only time will tell.--Magered 03:54, 4 July 2011 (CEST)

I'd like to propose three changes:
1) Adding a table ranking the different VIP Lounge Furnishings against each other.
2) Removal of all familiars from the page, since there's already a much more detailed Hardcore Familiar Analysis and the list here has been incomplete for quite some time.
3) We might want to add a short mentioning of the Telescope at the bottom of the page, since it fits none of the other analyses - but that would be mostly cosmetic.
Opinions? --Yatsufusa 04:22, 18 July 2012 (CEST)

Missing Items

The Camp Scout backpack should be in here. Maybe in Tier 4? --Yatsufusa 04:45, 5 July 2012 (CEST)

No it shouldn't. This is an analysis of IotM for use in Hardcore, and the backpack cannot be equipped in Hardcore. --timrem 08:38, 5 July 2012 (CEST)
Its drops drop in Hardcore. 4hp/mp regen per combat for most of a day? 20 adv of +30 to all stats? These happen in Hardcore with the backpack still in Hagnks. I say HC relevant.--ArgghFW 22:46, 5 July 2012 (CEST)

The Bloovian Groose should probably be added to the spleen tier. --Serin 00:55, 16 September 2012 (CEST)

Thinknerd is probably tier 5? Its not super useful but theres a few of the summons you can get some use out of. And theres the classy monkeys for class act. Discordance 00:29, 29 January 2013 (CET)

Campground patch

What would make a peppermint patch superior to a pumpkin patch? --Yatsufusa 09:22, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

Can't say for sure since I don't have a peppermint patch, but I'm pretty sure it's that the parasol is the only source of item-based free runaways in HC, and the epic food and booze is just icing. --Johnny Treehugger 16:07, 17 July 2012 (CEST)
Okay, that makes sense to me, since unique is always something to look out for and there are already 3 sources for yellow rays, all on the same cooldown. --Yatsufusa 04:22, 18 July 2012 (CEST)

Lilac's July 25th version

By focusing just on IOTM instead of temporarily available it exposes the lack of Bloovian Groose, a yearly Mr Store familiar, which as a spleen-giving volly-chaun should be very interesting. But I'm not really the sort of person this article is aimed at. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 02:10, 26 July 2012 (CEST)

Clan VIP

Should we add a note to the VIP key about ensuring that the clan one is in must have a fully (or mostly) stocked VIP room? The key becomes less worthwhile with fewer Clan IotM's in the VIP lounge. While anyone doing the research should be able to figure that out on their own, it may be a savior to someone new-ish to the game or just a reminder for players in general.--MageRed (talk) 07:37, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

  • A note would make sense. However... While I can't speak for each and every clan, I think most players with the VIP key have access to the furniture that makes the key such a great item. While pretty much every piece of furniture from the VIP Lounge is quite powerful, Hot Tub and Fax Machine are very much the main attractions. The Hot Tub is free and the fax is widely available and can still be bought at a comparatively low price. A player wouldn't be screwed as long as his clan had at least the fax – which I think can be expected. So maybe the note should rather say that something like "Make sure to check with your clan to find out if the furniture that you would buy the key for is available there.", since this page is still pretty much a shopping guide. And if they still feel like their clan didn't put enough effort into the VIP Lounge, they can either buy the stuff themselves, reconsider their clan choice or simply get whitelisted for BAFH till Jick decides that isn't how he wants things to work... --Yatsufusa (talk) 22:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Forum Discussion

I find the forums a much easier place to discuss stuff so I made a forum thread to discuss my current ideas for this page. --Melon (talk) 17:13, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

March / April '14 items

So I think it's pretty fair to say that Sneaky Pete's Jacket doesn't belong on here, since neither Jarlsberg's pan nor Boris's helm warranted being placed here. But what about the Geneticist Kit? I'm of the opinion that, if it belongs here, it belongs at either tier III or IV. Tier III because it has comparable utility with the Friar's Florist, but maybe as low as Tier IV because it competes with some other really awesome workshed items.--digitrev (talk) 19:44, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Despite the fact that the majority of them aren't Items of the Months, would a Workshed Comparison Table be useful? --Johnny Treehugger (talk) 20:20, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I would agree with putting the lab into slot 4, I think the competition with other workshed items is enough to make it lower priority. Not sure if a workshed comparison table is needed just yet, the snow machine and oven can be briefly mentioned in the labs comments. Maybe once we get another workshed item there might be enough useful analysis for a full table.--Melon (talk) 06:36, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Unless there's any concern, I think we could add the following entry to the table. Feel free to Please modify this before it goes out.--digitrev (talk) 19:43, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Hasc04.gif Items that are nice to have Hasc04.gif
Item Name Month Sold Type Description
Little Geneticist DNA-Splicing Lab April '14 Workshed A handy little workshed item, the Little Geneticist DNA-Splicing Lab provides an intrinsic that can be changed daily, and the creation of three potions per day. To get the most out of it, a fax is required, but the meat, item, and elemental damage buffs can all help to save a few turns over your run. It has some rather strong competition from the less expensive snow machine (if you have a garden item) and the warbear induction oven (if you don't).
  • I think that last sentence would be more useful if it read: However it has some rather strong competition from the snow machine and the warbear induction oven which are much cheaper. --Bale (talk) 00:06, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
    • Done and done. Unless there are any concerns, I'll be putting this on the main page.--digitrev (talk) 16:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Spring Break Beach

So how should this iotm be ranked? It has two uses, one is a combo with the DNA lab for weird monster access for +4 stats per fight, the other is access to scaling monsters. This makes the DNA lab better if you have this, but also at the high end the game is now in a stage where you don't need to powerlevel, so are either of these uses really necessary? I have no idea how to rank this. --Melon (talk) 09:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

  • I'd say Tier V, if at all, since it's kind of a mix of power-levelling (aka the GameInform magazine) and it improves the DNA kit. Maybe give it a mention on the DNA kit?--digitrev (talk) 11:36, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Type 69 Expiry

I've added some data for when each IOTM expires under Type 69 challenge paths. Specifically, I've listed the first path for which the item will be unusable. Comments/concerns?--digitrev (talk) 15:49, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

  • A rather minor remark: Writing "Spring '16" instead of just "2016" could lead some readers to believe the restriction was focused on quarters/months rather than years. On the other hand I'm not an expert on English readability. ;) --Yatsufusa (talk) 13:46, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
    • Conversely, writing just "2016" will cause readers to be confused as to whether the restriction changes on January 1 or February 15. — Cool12309 (talk) 20:37, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
      • I'd assume that list will be updated and used on January 1 – mostly because there's pretty much nothing saying otherwise. As far as I know the only official statement on the topic is this, which isn't really much of a statement. Maybe now that KoLCon is over, TPTB will find the time to write a proper official statement... --Yatsufusa (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
        • I don't feel like finding the source, but I'm pretty sure a /dev member (perhaps Gemelli or JLE) posted somewhere on the forums stating that it will not change until the spring path (to keep things fair). — Cool12309 (talk) 23:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
          • This is correct. It was stated that the list doesn't change until the path changes. So February 15 is the actual date. --Bale (talk) 00:13, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
            • Thank you. In that case "Spring '16" is the better choice of words. --Yatsufusa (talk) 00:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

May - Sep 2014

So yeah, this page is only up-to-date for April 2014. I think that Spring Break Beach belongs in Tier V (for the reasons discussed above). The still grill might also belong in Tier V, as it's a sombrero/starfish that also drops a decent last-ditch combat item that can also be crafted into a +ML potion. It's a niche use, but if you don't need anything else, it's a decent fallback familiar. The Grimoire isn't worth adding. Thor's pliers are path specific and won't be pullable again, so it doesn't belong.--digitrev (talk) 15:55, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

  • SBB: Important for doing a 2-day HC ascension. Good place for powerleveling. Still grill: Best sombrero in the game, it definitely has uses. Grimoire: +combat and some potions with +item and whatever else. Really good. Pliers: I agree with you mostly. The free smithing is nice and the +moxie and +pickpocket is helpful for moxie classes. Basically: Up all those tiers. — Cool12309 (talk) 19:31, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I have to question at least the Galloping Grill's placement as well. While I have yet to read persuading data comparing it with the Baby Bugged Bugbear and the Apathargic Bandersnatch (for example), I would rate it within the first three tiers. The Hardcore Familiar Analysis even lists it as the top Tier 1 position. While this might or might not spring from a fixation on in-season challenge paths, the grill is at the very least a worthy contender. Feel free to join the ranking discussion over there as well. --Yatsufusa (talk) 05:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Sep 2014-June 2015

So, I don't have all of these, having started playing again in April after a 2 year absence. I'm more or less caught up on what the newer stuff does, but experience with them helps, so I'll mostly stick to the ones I own. Here are my impressions:

Chateau Mantegna room key Badass Tier or Tier 1: Lots of free rests granting HP/MP and a huge number of substats each day, all but eliminating power leveling, freeing up clover use. Occasionally gives you powerful potions and +adv or +fites. It's a 1-monster fax for T69 that can be fought daily for free (can't fight it drunk as you can with other copies), but you have to stock the monster yourself before a run.

Airplane charter: Conspiracy Island Tier 4 or 5? I don't have this one, but its main appeal seems to be aftercore leveling. Airplane charter: Spring Break Beach is also missing from the list, which I'd definitely place in Tier 5. I do have SSB, and it doesn't seem very useful-in run. The most beneficial thing I can think of are the +item and +meat potions you can get from the diner while doing some early leveling. The biggest problem I see with SSB is that the quests don't reset on their own, making it difficult to find Beach Bucks to use for the epic food/booze you've unlocked. I've found Airplane charter: Dinseylandfill to be far more useful in HC. Barf Mountain is a great source of meat and good for early leveling. Filthy child leashes are a very nice bonus if you get one, or force one with an early yellow ray. Expensive cameras help in places you need init, and after just a few turns in Barf you should have a few garbage bags to turn in for daily Fun Funds to get epic food and booze, which have much stronger +item and +meat effects than SSB's potions.

Portable Mayo Clinic. I'd place this in Tier 4 with the Little Geneticist DNA-Splicing Lab. Extra adventures from food is always nice. However, mayo is expensive to use in-run, but this isn't as much of a problem if you have Dinsey and don't mind a bit of Barf-farming to fuel it. The Mayo bath is free at least, but a-boo peak and the lair of the ninja snowmen are pretty much the only places you'd use it. The sphygmayomanometer gives a nice stat boost based on your blood mayo level, while the mayo lance is a good source of a yellow ray if you don't have any others, but it uses up all of your blood mayo. The miracle whip is a nice option for the last day of your run for a massive +item and +meat boost for frat/hippy war. Very good for PvP consumable minis.

Bottle of lovebug pheromones. I've heard these are a great "quality of life" item. Tier 2?

Crimbo sapling. PvP fites and yellow rays. Tier 3?

Fist turkey outline. Very nice booze. Tier 3?

Yellow puck. Depends on what tptb decide to do with power pills. There's talk of putting them on a counter like spleen items. Tier 3? --Megustalapasta (talk) 19:30, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Some other thoughts: Is "Badass Tier" really necessary for Smiths? It will be expiring from T69 in a few months anway. I think it makes sense to move it to Tier 1. I think the a few things like Mysterious chest at least deserve a mention on this list (increased fullness/drunkeness for pvp minis and least-restricted volleyfairy.) Items with a significant PvP use should have at least some mention, as well as grimoires, even if their effects are minor. --Megustalapasta (talk) 20:06, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Hardly anyone is actually trying to maintain this??

Maybe we should nuke it from orbit and start over, perhaps with a focus on standard-legal items, since despite the complaints most people really are playing standard rather than unrestricted? --billybobfred (talk) 19:28, 1 January 2016 (UTC)