Talk:Haiku katana

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Mr Skullhead
The Other Guy
This page has earned the never-before-recorded Jick & Mr Skullhead seal of approval.
Well, if you really must know, there's no such "seal of approval" per se, and the entire basis of this message is a passing comment on some radio show, with no way of truly knowing who was speaking since none of the lowly players were allowed to gaze upon the faces of the speakers, but assuming that the radio show was actually hosted by Jick and Mr Skullhead rather than, say, a hippy and a hobo (not necessarily in that order), and assuming that the forum transcript of the show was actually written by a person who was listening to the show rather than being generated by an advanced calculator without any sensory devices which would allow it to know of the events of the show, then their approval was given on the radio show of . . . you know what, here's the link. Find it yourself. I need a Willer or eight.

Damage Bonus

Has anyone else noticed that you can still auto-attack with the katana and use the effects in the Form of Bird? --Syaldia 15:02, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

There seems to be some sort of unlisted damage bonus. I am consistently one-shotting Spooky Hobos with this weapon, without crits. When I use a stainless steel shillelagh(all other equipment being the same), I routinely inflict 440 or so noncrit damage and need two strikes. I am also one-shotting Cold Hobos. I am not notified when the "the hobo cries out in pain" attack occurs. It seems to be happening less often, judging by my HP. --Cheesyname 15:48, 1 September 2008 (CDT)


Ruin11: it grants 5 different combat skills
Ruin11: the first one costs 0 mp and heals 15 hp and mp
Ruin11: my bad my bad >.<
Ruin11: ignore that plz
Silantis: It doesn't tell me how much damage I did ... ever.

--Raijinili 23:27, 31 August 2008 (CDT)

It only doesn't tell you how much damage you cause if you one hit them.--Th3 lon3ly sheph3rd 00:02, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Posted on the IOTM topic by tripwood (might be deleted for spoilers, so I'm reproducing it):

Spring: 0mp. Recover 10-20 HP and MP
Summer: 10 mp. Critical hit.
Fall: 10 mp. Delevel.
Winter: 10 mp. Slight cold damage? Maybe more?
17-cuts: Melee attack that grants ten turns of an effect that makes combat like in the haiku dungeon everywhere.

--Raijinili 23:32, 31 August 2008 (CDT)

I find when I use certain skills mentioned above, the others disappear from my combat action bar. Assuming not a bug, maybe something to do with the seasonal order? --Bobulus 23:36, 31 August 2008 (CDT)

If I use the fall skill first then the rest do not disappear, past that I can't tell. I know that using fall then winter causes the other options to disappear, as does fall then spring. I can't tell about fall then summer because summer one-hits anything I've been fighting.--Scottstapp 23:41, 31 August 2008 (CDT)

I wonder if having this while adventuring in the Haiku Dungeon has any effect. --Sao 23:47, 31 August 2008 (CDT)

Will using the Bash-Os Boxtop 20 times cause the katana to change or give an effect? --WARriorer 00:25, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

This is what I know so far (as an addition to what Raijinili posted earlier):

Spring Raindrop Attack: 0 mp. Recover 10-20 HP and MP (Removes all usage of other skills)
Summer Siesta: 10mp. 100% Critical hit (Unspaded: Don't know whether it removes all usage of other skills)
Falling Leaf Whirlwind: I believe it increases Monster Level, because I'm getting more stat gains from using this.
Winter's Bite Technique: 10mp. Inflicts cold damage on enemy.
The 17 Cuts: 3 or 17 damage? Give the effect: Haiku State of Mind

--WARriorer 00:33, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Adventured around with double fisted skull smacking and two katanas. I was able to use spring raindrop and winter's bite, twice, so you do get double cast with two swords.--Th3 lon3ly sheph3rd 00:38, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

It seems to make everything haiku, like the Haiku Dungeon. Edit: This may be Haiku State of Mind.

Some hit messages:

Your brutal attack
deals 909 damage
to your hapless foe.
Flocks of cranes in flight
fleeing the scene where you caused
pain beyond measure.
A sweet summer breeze
Wafts around you as you strike
910 times.
Learn self-reliance
calculate your own damage
math is hard, young one.
Ripples in a pond
a flowing crimson river
blood drips from your foe.
Wow, did you see that?
Did you count the damage done?
Well, neither did I.
Your brutal attack
deals 910 damage
to your hapless foe.
Flocks of cranes in flight
fleeing the scene where you caused
pain beyond measure.
Autumn leaves falling
sound nothing like your weapon
as it smacks your foe.

Critical hit:

That was quite a hit!
True, palpable, CRITICAL!
(Constructively so.)

Spring Raindrop attack:

A plump spring raindrop
sliced into a million bits:
a refreshing mist.

17 Cuts attack:

17 small cuts,
three painful ideograms
on your opponent.

You acquire an effect: Haiku State of Mind (duration: 10 Adventures)

Summer Siesta:

You pause and relax,
contemplating your next move.
And then you make it!

Falling Leaf Whirlwhind:

You spin in circles.
Each turn makes your foe shorter
by about an inch.

Winter's Bite Technique:

A chill wind rises
as you slash with your icy blade
for 15 damage.

17 Cuts attack, against the Snow Queen Cotton Candy Carnie, equipped with Oversized Fish Scaler, Message:

A startled heron
cranes its neck to see your friend
hit for %dmg damage.

I do not know how much damage he did --Syaldia 09:38, 3 September 2008 (CDT)

Thoughts:

  • Damage is given only when a valid haiku is formed

Cap'n Hector 00:41, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

It only forbids usage of the seasonal skill after the spring/winter skill. I still can use 'The 17 Cuts'--Beliar Lightbearer 10:01, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Haiku Combat Skill Chain

The name of each of the 5 combat skills is exactly 5 syllables long. It seems to me there's a fair chance that's no coincidence, which makes it either a reference to the syllabic length of the first and third haiku lines, or perhaps there's an actual gameplay mechanic to it. Maybe it's possible to chain attacks in such a way as to make a haiku, and gain some kind of bonus? We would need attacks of seven syllable lengths. --Murmur 11:25, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

  • intriguing idea. with my hogulus hat on (no awesomeness intrinsic, unfortunately), i just counted the syllables of all the combat skills. although i'm british and can't speak properly, these are the ones that look like they have seven:
    • Fire Orange Bottle-Rocket
    • Fire Purple Bottle-Rocket
    • Fire off a Roman Candle
    • All-You-Can-Beat Wing Buffet
    • Give Your Opponent "The Bird"
    • Ask Richard for a Bandage
    • Ask Richard for a Grenade
    • Ask the hobo for a drink
    • Conjure Relaxing Campfire
    • Inappropriate Backrub
    • Summon hobo underling
    • Ravioli Shurikens
    • Weapon of the Pastalord
  • looks like the pastamancer skills are the easiest to test. --Evilkolbot 12:56, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

Hidden +Muscle enchantment?

When I use Cannelloni Coocoon with the katana equipped, it always gives me more hitpoints than my max (although my ACTUAL hp gain is only to my max). Examples: (1) 150/976 HP, used CC, "You gain 917 hit points"; (2) 51/976 HP, used CC, "You gain 1,261 hit points." Both times, however, HP did not go over the maximum. --willparryhdm

That sounds more like a possible healing boost, have you tried it with a skill like Tongue of the Otter/Walrus? Qmanol 17:27, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

References

Under references it says "Haiku katana / is the Japanese plural. / That's the reference." What's with that? It either doesn't make sense or else it is wrong since the japanese plural of 'Haiku' is 'Haiku' and the plural of 'Katana' is 'Katana'. What reference is this haiku attempting to convey? --Bale 19:26, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Thanks for the rewrite. I now understand the meaning of what you were trying to say. --Bale 22:47, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Article Layout

Is it really necessary to have the Notes section completely written in haiku? I understand that this is a haiku-themed item, but it makes the article ugly and difficult to scan for the item's properties. Disc 19:32, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

The only problem I see with this is that {{haiku}} annihilates the asterisk from the list environment (but apparently not all of the identing). For example:
This template hates lists
Ruins our preferred format
Rectification?
This haiku: boring
my imagination: small
Dude, where is my car?
Unfortunately, every template does this, such as {{acquire}}, so unless there's a new way to write templates I don't know of a way to get around this. --Flargen 19:37, 1 September 2008 (CDT)
  • However, the haiku formatting is really fun and it makes the article seem more appropriate to the item. --Bale 19:43, 1 September 2008 (CDT)
    • It's cute that the notes are written in haiku, but let's not get too cute. The dual wielding note in particular is just damned confusing in its current haiku state. The combat skill descriptions are a bit hard to parse as well.--Prestige 19:53, 1 September 2008 (CDT)
  • If you want to do haiku notes, preserving the bullets, just do them without the template, like below:
  • This template hates lists
    Ruins our preferred format
    Rectification?
    • This haiku: boring
      my imagination: small
      Dude, where is my car?
  • Cow Chicken Moose Cat
    Dog Duck Donkey Deer Bear Bat
    Hamster Bunny Frog
Tah-dah! --JRSiebz (|§|) 21:52, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Everyone hates my "plural" haiku --Raijinili 22:50, 1 September 2008 (CDT)

Also, do we want the combat skill haiku centered like that? Would we rather have them an indented sub-list like the Mr. Store description, or a bulleted sub-list like the "This haiku: boring" haiku a few lines up, i think they should be a bulleted sublist of the above list item? Anyone? Or do people like them better centered? --JRSiebz (|§|) 20:55, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

I'd prefer it indented. --Raijinili 22:22, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

Awesome vs Not Awesome

This page is awesome. Period. -GG Crono

I just noticed that the "See also" is also a haiku! Awesome! --Devion 06:50, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

This page wins at life. I approve of the haiku style. --Clackling 13:22, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

Can we please junk the haiku format and list all the information properly? You know, so the article can be helpful, and not just some cutesy in-joke? This isn't a forum thread, for crying out loud. --Gradis 15:43, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

I dunno...The haiku style really adds to the page, and it's not like the page is impossible to understand. Quite the opposite, in fact. How is the article not helpful as is? --Silenthuntr7 15:46, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

  • I think it's easy for people to get carried away with the Haiku theme, especially given the sudden interest in the Haiku Dungeon (after the revamp) and now this new IotM. It's funny, but the whole KoL Wiki isn't under the Haiku State of Mind effect - it needs to be clearer for public use so everyone knows how the item works and what's going on, just just the people who were in on the spading. --Gradis 16:11, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

In an attempt to follow the haiku format, the notes can appear cryptic for some people. For example, the Dual-wield haiku. As somebody who owns this item, I understand what it means by "ignore Spring/Winter's ban on seasons just once", but it's likely a person looking at this article might not already know the mechanics of this equipment. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect easy-to-process information when accessing a wiki, but that's just my two cents. Disc 16:00, 2 September 2008 (CDT)

  • jick's rewrite of the whole fight code in haiku form goes way beyond impressive and is sheer delight, and this page's mirroring of that is a worthy tribute. i'd say quit your griping and revel in the awesomeness. --Evilkolbot 16:22, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
    • There's "awesomeness" and then there's "making the damn thing readable." Don't be unprofessional. Should we next change all the information text on the Gnomish Gnomads' Camp pages to conform to that particular pattern of spelling changes? --Gradis 16:26, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
      • Agn excellegnt suggestiogn. Dogne. --Keska 19:31, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
  • as a relative newcomer, i'm afraid you don't get to decide. since the other wiki admins seem to agree that this page should be formatted as is we'll leave it awhile before any hasty editing. i vote it stays in haiku form. more votes needed. --Evilkolbot 16:41, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
    • Glad to see the admins and long time "editors" on the KoL Wiki are taking a page from Wikipedia and acting like insufferable jackasses, decreeing from on high who can and can't express an opinion. The haiku format is cute; however, this is supposed to be a storehouse of information, not cute little word games. As an informational article, this one is worthless. There are plenty of haikus in the dungeon and the game text itself; there's no need for it here, too. Mr. Blonde 19:40, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
      • He didn't say "you can't express an opinion". He said "you don't get to decide", as a response to Gradis's removal of most of the haiku without waiting for a second opinion, since he seemed to have made up the Wiki's mind about the haiku in his revision comment. Edit: Timestamps show otherwise! --Raijinili 22:35, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
    • I agree with Mr. Blonde that it's not about seniority (and actually the jackassery is why I stopped editing wikipedia), it's about consensus. That said, consensus seems to be leaning towards the Haiku format. I suggest again that you leave it be for now and change it in a few weeks.--SomeStranger (t|c) 20:39, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
      • Even if it's consensus, it might be best if the text was made clear before it's made haiku. --Raijinili 22:35, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I vote keep it in Haiku form--Uberferret 17:31, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I agree that with the rewrite of part of the fight code that this page needs to stay in haiku form. The work put into this item and the dungeon is too great and the dungeon is hard to do in haiku. --Chunky_boo 18:14, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I'd say that it's readable enough and having a little fun on one page of the entire wiki isn't a problem. For now spend your efforts trying to make more understandable haiku. Try changing it when the Haiku excitement has worn off....--SomeStranger (t|c) 18:48, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I vote for haiku form too. --CG1:t,c,e 19:54, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • Great the way it is
    Verb Nounsley is my hero
    --Ailuro Dragon
    (20:44 CDT, 2 Sep 2008)
  • I thinks it's cute, as long as the haiku are as clear/concise/specific as possible, but it can be a little annoying though, we should make sure to limit where it happens though. We should keep it under containment at haiku katana, The Haiku Dungeon, haiku combat and Haiku State of Mind. Don't want it to spread. It's like the herpes of poetry. Heh. --JRSiebz (|§|) 21:00, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
  • To people who complain about its unreadability, why not tell us exactly what's unclear so we can fix it, rather than only using unnamed "confusing" portions of the text as an argument to change it?
  • To people wanting to make the haikus more clear, you can always make multiple haikus to explain something complicated.
  • I wouldn't mind at all if the haikus were removed, as long as the rest of this debate take place in haiku. --Raijinili 22:35, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
    • As a sidenote, I find that sometimes, when people make things "more clear" in the notes, they also inadvertently remove important information. --Raijinili 22:36, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
    • As another sidenote, we don't have to be serious. This isn't Wikipedia, which is trying to become a respectable encyclopedia. This is a wiki for a black-and-white stick-figure They-Might-Be-Giants tribute MMORPG. Or something. We shouldn't put humor over clarity, but the people who KoL was originally targeted at are probably exactly the people who appreciate a little unexpected humor. --Raijinili 23:11, 2 September 2008 (CDT)
Poetic layout
Brings a big grin to my face
Like your mom last night
I love the haikus
Appropriate and funny
Leave it like it is

--Valliant 09:45, 3 September 2008 (CDT)

  • Cannot stand the fact that all the information sections are in haiku format. I could care less about reference sections, but when trying to read the main information about what this item does to differ from all other articles is non standard and takes too much time to peel off the real information that is contained in the haiku.

--Rovorcen 12:58, 3 September 2008 (EST)

    • I notice that you neither gave an example nor said that you yourself found it difficult to understand. Do you have an actual supporting point? I'm getting annoyed by all these people who just hate the haiku format but can't seem to say exactly why it's harmful to the wiki. Oh, and turning this into "Well, I'm getting annoyed at people who want to destroy the usefulness of the wiki" is stupid since you're, once again, not giving helpful criticism. --Raijinili 19:23, 3 September 2008 (CDT)
      • Ok I understand that only stating I dont like is not very helpful. I do infact find it difficult to understand. For example the skill haiku for the 17 cuts took me multiple reads before i actually understood its description. If I had not read the posts in the main game forums i still may not understand exactly how the skill works. In the second line of the verse it has 10mp period damage period effect, I thought this meant it had a 10 mp skill that granted an effect that would alter your damage. Really this skill does damage and grants an effect that changes things to a haiku. Now I am not a complete fool so I can figure things out. I just feel that I have to spend to much time thinking about these poems than actually just getting the immediate information which is what i feel is the main point of the wiki. When i want clever plays on words, puzzles and word games I play the game and think about things. When i want quick information on how things work I come to the wiki. Now that all the individual skill pages are in haiku form as well I have to say this is the first time that I have concentrated my information gathering first with the forums. I still check back and hope that the article format has been changed and more info has been updated to help me decide if i should purchase this ITOM. Usually the forums are so full of speculation that I will start with the wiki.--Rovorcen 13:22, 4 September 2008 (EST)
        • I also find the 17 cuts haiku very generalized. It makes the reader assume what "Damage." and "10 MP." means, the same thing applies for Winter's Bite Tecnique. Does it deal damage to you, or to the enemy? Does it cost 10 MP, or does it regenerate 10 MP? And Summer Siesta's "Only effect: Always Critical": Does this mean I get an effect? These are all answers you may take for granted because you already know how the item functions, and from that perspective, I'm sure playing with the format of the article is lots of fun. But for the players who potentially use this article to decide whether or not to donate and buy one of these from Mr. Store, this article can be very frustrating in it's current form. And it's not a problem with the individual haiku, it's a problem with using the haiku format. The best way to word something is seldom going to fall within the limitations of the haiku format, and I feel using multiple haiku to explain every little aspect of the item would just clutter the article and make everything even more awkward. I sincerely hope we decide to leave gameplay to the game and not let it spill over into the wiki. Disc 20:39, 4 September 2008 (CDT)
          • You would have to have tunnel vision and refuse to even see the other skill descriptions on the page to think that you gain 10MP. Same goes for "effect". As for reading, I would hope that people can read haiku if they're going to buy an item which Jick said was designed at least partly for people who appreciate haiku. If you're frustrated by haiku, you're probably not going to like this item anyway. --Raijinili 00:50, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
  • Position:
Haiku is awesome
But don't overdo it now
Seek Wiki balance

Also, have a cinquain.

Wiki
editors fight
with words and verbal art
over Japanese poetry
Find peace

Note: When I first read the article, the haikus impeded my understanding of what the weapon and its skills do. As a point of reference, the See Also section is currently a haiku. I missed that when I went to correct "The Muscle Modifiers" to "Muscle Modifiers," as the standards instruct. You may want to add this to the standards if the haiku format stays. --Irregular 13:14, 3 September 2008 (CDT)

  • I don't like the See Also section being haiku either. I didn't change it on my first major revision. If we really want it to be haiku, we should remove the pipe links and write one haiku per link. --Raijinili 19:23, 3 September 2008 (CDT)
  • Personally, I love the haiku. That said, would it be a terrible crime to make two pages for this item-- one in haiku, and one not? I realize that it's not exactly standard Wiki operating procedure, and it makes keeping the two pages synchronized a little difficult, but a link at the top to a "normal" page for those who don't care for the haiku, or just want some easier-to-understand info seems like it would solve the problem. How's that for a long sentence? --Southwest 23:49, 3 September 2008 (CDT)
    • I like the haiku as well, but I really wish the skill haikus were not center justified. It make things look really weird. Or more spacing needs to be between them so they're not scrunched together. Shoptroll 14:51, 4 September 2008 (CDT)
  • As neat as it is that people went to the effort, I would greatly prefer it to follow the standards of all the other equipment pages in the wiki, so I can get the information I need at a glance, rather than having to go through all these haikus.--MattG987 15:27, 4 September 2008 (CDT)
  • People only have to look at the page maybe once, and it's only one page. I don't think anyone is really unduly hurt by a little self-referential art on one measly page. My insignificant vote: keep the haiku. --silver 07:33, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I'd vote "not awesome" myself. It's not that I don't appreciate the enthusiasm for haiku, but the couple times I've looked at this page I find myself having to mentally filter which parts of the page are actual ingame messages (which obviously should be in haiku form) and which parts of the page are explaining what the item does (which I feel like should not especially be listed in haiku format). I understand the contents of the explanatory haikus, but I don't really appreciate having to stop and think "is this an in-game message or a description?" Bakapyrite 22:29, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
    • In-game descriptions are theoretically always marked as such. If you see an in-game description and nothing says that it's an in-game description, then you should probably fix that. --Raijinili 23:38, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I very much dislike the current form. The wiki is supposed to be a simple compilation of data and results, not the current unreadable page. Plain english is good. Can I start writing my spading results in 1337-sp34k if that looks pretty to me?-QuantumNightmare 22:33, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
    • Hi. Stop indiscriminately labelling the whole page as "unreadable". It's not helping to convince the people who can read it, who are the people you should be trying to convince.
    • Also, spading results end up on the talk page, no? Besides, if you wrote them in 1337, people would wonder what the joke is. --Raijinili 23:38, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
  • Just stick something at haiku katana/Readable with the page properly formatted, and put a link at the top of the page. Also, stop bitching. --Ricket 23:44, 5 September 2008 (CDT)
    • Well, it's not at the top of the page, but I stole it from Uncyclopedia. --Raijinili 01:34, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
  • The haiku katana/Readable page should be swapped with this one, and a link provided to the haiku-style one, so that when performing a search to quickly acquire information it directs you to the one that can be easily parsed.--MattG987 15:08, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
    • nope. all this whining about haiku being hard to understand suggests that the new content is beyond you too. wtf? since the "readable" page is especially for those of you who are just too dumb and/or humourless to enjoy the continuation of an in-game joke i say we continue to make you work by reading one more sentence and clicking one more link. unfortunate that you won't want (or, perhaps, be able) to read the box telling you there's more easily digested content elsewhere but too bad. or rather, good for you since it gives you one more thing to whine about. --Evilkolbot 16:43, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
      • This might amaze you, but the wiki exists as more than a humorous reference for people who can't believe that haikus aren't the Best Thing Ever. Seconding the swap of the haiku page for the readable version, replacing haiku katana/Readable with haiku katana/Haiku.--Gradis 19:28, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
        • This might be patronizing you, but a wiki is what the users make of it (unless the admins make an official decision), and right now you're in the minority and you've not convinced a single one of us that the wiki is supposed to be anything like you think it is. And again, if you can't read haiku, then you're probably not going to buy this anyway, or you would be unhappy about your purchase because of the "unreadable haiku" that it bestows. --Raijinili 20:18, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
    • If you can't sacrifice a little optimization for a joke, you're seriously playing the wrong game. I made redirects at hk and hk/r, by the way. --Raijinili 17:04, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
      • To be completely fair, the wiki exists to explain the humor of Kingdom of Loathing, not to extend it. This problem is more with the "joke" flying in the face of established standards than anything else. Also, jokes usually disappear after they're told. This page is going to seem very old and very dumb months from now when the haiku craze is over.--Gradis 19:28, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
        • To be completely fair, the wiki exists to benefit players. Having the content fork satisfies this. Having the joke also satisfies this, at the expense of people who shouldn't even be looking at this page more than once.
        • As for seeming old and dumb, I would say that having "haiku" in a page about a "haiku katana" will be pretty funny to anyone who thought it was funny before. Haikus have been in the KoL culture for years, yet we still have more people in /haiku than in /veteran (as of now, 44 to 27) despite the creative difficulty of typing and "annoying" difficulty of reading haiku all the time. The concern about the joke getting old is completely made up. --Raijinili 20:18, 6 September 2008 (CDT)

Throw in one more vote
In favour of this dumb joke
--John Doe Two Four Four 18:22, 6 September 2008 (CDT)

  • Now that there's a readable alternative, I see no problem with the article being written in haiku. In fact, the joke isn't complete enough. The metadata link, item number, description ID, in-game links, market statistics, item type, power, enchantments, not usable in hardcore note, in-game plural, collections, navigation template, and the link to the readable version of the article should all be converted into haiku. Someone else will have to do it though, because I'm terrible at poetry. --Prestige 21:57, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
  • In response to Raijinili, it isn't that it is unreadable; it's that it does not follow the standard format of everything else, and rather than being able to instantly glean the desired information, one must actually read the haikus. It's irritating and a waste of time when trying to get information, which is what the purpose of the page is.--MattG987 22:27, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
    • If you have a problem with reading stuff, then I don't know what to say. As for the purpose of the page, it's to inform. If something is ambiguous, that's a problem, but that's a problem that can be solved without removing the haiku.
    • Actually, since the haiku are compact, it should actually be faster for the eyes to take in the words. --Raijinili 22:53, 6 September 2008 (CDT)

Although I won't jump in on the elitist haiku vs not-haiku discussion, I do like the single-line version better. It doesn't look as much out of place and is personally easier to read. --Shima 23:26, 6 September 2008 (CDT)

  • I don't see how it makes a difference. If we are going to link to a separate version of the article, we may as well go all out on the formatting of this version. Disc 23:40, 6 September 2008 (CDT)
    • See, this is exactly why logic classes at school should be mandatory. --Raijinili 13:13, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
      • Why is it necessary to remove the line breaks when we have a whole separate article to address this article's presentation? We should either decide to make the page presentable and make it conform to the same standards as other equipment articles, or make it a hilarious haiku article. It's clear that this issue is split between two very different types of editors: editors who want the Wiki to be presentable and consistent, and the editors who are willing to occasionally sacrifice both of those elements to uphold zany in-jokes and turn the wiki into a Jick shrine. But now that we have a separate article to satisfy the former, this version should be used to satisfy the latter. In any case, you should try using your flawless logic to contribute to the discussion instead of focusing all your effort on making snide remarks about other editors. Disc 17:08, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I was disappointed to see the linebreaks go. Why was that necessary? We have our "readable" version at Haiku katana/Readable. If we're going to make the haiku joke, then let's make the joke and not pussyfoot around it. --Southwest 15:46, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
    • I agree. The experiment has failed. I propose someone puts the lines back in. --JohnDoe244 17:50, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
      • It wasn't to appease the naysayers. Haiku in Japanese are just 17 syllables, without the requirement of a visual 5-7-5 separation (though as I understand it, they should still break into 5-7-5 without splitting words), and it makes the joke more subtle, with the only hints being the lengths of the lines and the box about the readable page. I thought it would make it more rewarding when discovered by new readers. I'll change it back, though I don't know if you'll change your minds about the linebreaks now that you know why I did it. --Raijinili 22:39, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
    • I'm disappointed too. Yes, they're still haikus, but for those of us who are naive with haiku it's not obvious. Put the line breaks back. Or remove the readable page since it's fairly redundant now. --Shoptroll 10:41, 8 September 2008 (CDT)
      • Er, they got readded over 12 hours ago. Clear your browser cache and try again. --Quietust (t|c) 11:31, 8 September 2008 (CDT)
        • Awesome. Thanks whoever readded them --Shoptroll 13:43, 8 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I vote we keep the Haikus, in their three line form. If you don't like them, don't use the sword. Oh, and Jick has given his stamp of approval, so hopefully that will help inject some calmness to these proceedings --Urutsini 22:47, 8 September 2008 (CDT)
  • It should be noted that I was the one who originally made the page haiku (inspired by the Haiku Dungeon combat intro), then the one who removed the line breaks, and finally the one who put them back. So if you're thankful for the first and third person, and want to kill the second, then know at least that they're the same person.
    And the whole point of removing the haiku was to make them not obvious, but people didn't like that.
    Also, I reread that part where Jick and Skully loved the page like five times. I'm pathetic :( --Raijinili 03:19, 9 September 2008 (CDT)

Still Awesome

this page is depressing me. the nots' argument boils down to either this page is non-standard, or (puts on whiny jick doing riff on the radio voice) "it's too hard to get the information as quickly as i'd like".

transgressive
to reiterate, the reason this page is in haiku is that it follows jick's reimagining of his entire fight code in php. that level of awesomeness deserves some tribute.
impenetrable
the item's messages in-game are in haiku. poetry is hard. perhaps you should message jick and ask him to give you a method whereby you can turn the haiku messages off. oh, yeah, right, he did already, it's called not using a katana. if you're coming here for info on what a katana does, you should equally be prepared to have to do a little work to get that info. although i'm not happy that it exists, the "readable" page actually does us a service in this respect; since there's a translation for the mouth-breathers and the knuckle-draggers, the haiku on the main page can be as gnomic as they like.
laboured
why do you need this information quickly? do the ss have a gun to the head of your family? if they do, why are you browsing the metasite for a dumb-ass stick-figure game with no future? some things take work, get over it or click on the readable link. --Evilkolbot 04:38, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
  • Is the purpose of this site NOT to allow one to quickly get information as desired? I'd say if you want a haiku version of the page, one which violates the established standards of the KoLWiki, then get over it and put a link to it on the correctly formatted page, which a search for "haiku katana" would take you to by default.--MattG987 12:46, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
    • "Is the purpose of this site NOT to allow one to quickly get information as desired?" Nope. It's to inform in such a way that the reader doesn't get wrong information. Speed is not a priority.
    • Well, that's not exactly true either. The purpose of the site is what consensus says it is, and right now consensus says that the joke is fine. When has Jick put the diamonds over telling a (hopefully good) joke? Are Jick's standards not good enough for us?
    • Also, I'd argue that this is the "correct" format, as it's the one that is most appropriate.
    • Seriously, are you even going to buy this sword? Out of all you naysayers, probably only two of you have bought (or would have bought, had you the meat) katanas for anything other than investing. --Raijinili 13:22, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
      • I bought it, but I wasn't aware that buying an IotM was a prerequisite for commenting on a wiki talk page. Jesus... you guys really are taking a cue from Wikipedia. Can we start having kangaroo court arbitrations now? Mr. Blonde 23:19, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
        • I wasn't aware that asking a question which would give us an idea of how often people who hate the page would look at it is completely irrelevant to whether or not we should change how the wiki decision-making process works just to cater to their needs. I guess we'll keep learning from you, eh? --Raijinili 23:52, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
    • Except consensus does not currently say that the joke is fine. There are more than just a few people who agree that the standards should not be violated for the sake of adding a theme to this page. Also, the katanas are a useful item, and have a neat effect. You seem to think that people have an objection to haikus in general; that isn't the problem, it's that this breaks an agreed upon standard for all pages that make them easy to navigate, quickly glean information from, and move on.--MattG987 14:29, 7 September 2008 (CDT)
  • I dont know why everyone has to get so confrontational on this idea. I only responded on this discussion page because it seemed like there was a vote taking place on the format. I obviously voted against the haiku style format for the reasons above but was and still am willing to let democracy take its course. I figured the majority would decide the outcome. I figured that one side or the other would be forced into accepting one page.
    • I am acutally more than happy that Raijinili and/or whatever other editors have let their be two pages. I hope they both stay up to date if anything changes.
    • I do really like the new changes to the haiku dungeon and the interesting combat text display changes.
    • I do think this item is interesting and especially with the combat text modifying effect.
    • I have not bought one of these items only for the reason that i spend most of my time in hardcore, would not be able to use it, and cant really afford to buy every IOTM.
    • I do prefer a sentenced based article layout(reasons above) but that is only a preference and appreciate everyone put some serious creative time into haiku-izing the page.
    • I find the Haiku on this page have been improved significantly since my first posting improving the readability of this article. All that meaning that I find the Haiku more understandable and have very little room for ambiguity. If the pages remains as such the Haiku must not lead to a vague interpretation of the item's capabilities.
  • So i just wanted to make sure that my opinions were clear, not stereotyped into some general tool for either side to use as a whine. Also that I am not discounting other's opinions and feel that no one should feel insulted here if someone does not agree with you. Hence it being a discussion page.Just one stuffy old fool's thoughts take 'em or leave 'em. --Rovorcen 18:00, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
  • Actually, I'm a tentatively for, yet mostly indifferent. ;) But really, the only thing I don't care for is that the other page is called haiku katana/Readable, it implies the regular version is not readable. And that capital R in readable bugs me. haiku katana/prose anyone? Heh. "I ain’t one for poetry, aint’ one for prose. ain’t one for the scent of a sping-time rose." --JRSiebz (|§|) 19:57, 8 September 2008 (CDT)

Critical skill works with V for Vivala Mask?

Anybody know if the critical hit skill works with the V for Vivala Mask?--MattG987 13:03, 3 September 2008 (CDT)

Yes, they do. AmishGuerrilla

Was confirmed on the Sept. 8 radio show that the V Mask crit effects work with the katana (Summer Siesta and regular crit), even if the combat messages are suppressed due to the haikus. --Kow 22:14, 8 September 2008 (CDT)

Synergies

I'm noticing that the bonus to melee damage is applied to headbutt and kneebutt. the damage range should be between 20 and 40 for both, but I am consistently seeing damage somewhere around 60. interesting... --Pso lord734 13:16, 8 September 2008 (CDT)

"Seal of Approval"

I'm really starting to wonder if I'm taking the whole "funny wiki" thing too far. Well, at least it's on the talk page. --Raijinili 08:31, 9 September 2008 (CDT)

  • Just to be clear, the box is intended to stay on the talk page, and I didn't make it for the main article. --Raijinili 08:38, 9 September 2008 (CDT)

I think having the seal there is a way to stem the arguments (I mean, that plus we already made our decision), but we should probably cut down the rambling inside of it. As humorous as it is, no one's going to take the time to read the whole thing. I'm not going to touch it, but I just wanted to voice my opinion. --Clackling 08:40, 9 September 2008 (CDT)

  • Reading the whole thing is only necessary for the joke. The information is in the bolded text at the top. Also, the reason I decided to make the "rambling" joke was because I couldn't figure out how to shrink the images without uploading copies, meaning that I had to add more text to make the images fit in the box. --Raijinili 08:46, 9 September 2008 (CDT)

I just wanted to say that I heard about this page for the first time during the radio show and read the whole thing through. --Urutsini 08:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

See also

I don't think this should be in haiku. It's not a part of the article that's usually in prose, and the See Also is done algorithmically, as opposed to having to be a bit creative about it. Thoughts? --Raijinili 05:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Oh Jesus Christ, it's not that big a deal. If all of you whining over a tiny little wiki page about an insignificant web browser game would channel your energies into solving our world's problems, we'd have Atlantis rebuilt in a week. Get over it. There are worse things in the world to get worked up over than some web page written in haiku for God's sake. I'll never understand why so many Wikipedia:Type As even let themselves come within a mile of an off-beat, funny, satirical, not-at-all serious game that's geared specifically towards clowns, goofs, and other silly-type people. --TW 06:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I only added one word and partially modified another to make it work, it just looked too close to not do it. --Urutsini 06:15, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

HP/MP regen range

I haven't been truly spading -- I know, shame on me -- but I have definitely noticed getting more than 20 hp/mp at a time from Spring Raindrop Attack. Sometimes up to 25. Perhaps the range is 10-25? More thorough spading from multiple, independent sources may be necessary. --TW 06:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Yeah, look at the page you linked there. The 8-28 range is apparently wrong, too, though, because I got 31 mp once, but only once and never 29 or 30 or more than 28 hp in the 6 or 7 days I tested this. --Friederike 11:10, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
    • Could it be something as simple as the regen scaling with player level, at least up to a certain cap? --Prestige 12:55, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Does anybody know the mechanic through which HP/MP restoration is calculated when a Disembodied Hand holds the Haiku Katana? Early in a run, I noticed I was only getting 0-2 HP/MP per Spring Raindrop Attack and later 5-10 HP/MP, so I think it either scales with player level or Disembodied hand weight--but it is certainly not the 10-28 or so obtained when in the player's hand. Any suggestions? --Mmribs 20:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

  • It seems to be weapon power in your main hand, as discussed on the Spring Raindrop Attack talk page. I don't have a disembodied hand, though, so I can't get any data on this. --Friederike 16:15, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Haiku in Japanese

I love the way this page is going :D But anyone think it might be useful to include the fact that "Haiku Katana" in Japanese pronunciation is 6 syllables instead of 5? (ha-i-ku ka-ta-na) --Kilyle 11:37, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Yup, haiku has 6 syllables everywhere in the world except for america, but since america is number 1 and everyone else is not number 1, it actually has 5 syllables! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eror11 (talkcontribs) on 11:38, 2010 June 22

Spring Raindrop attack conditions

The page states the following:

  • Spring Raindrop Attack
needs absolutely zero
MP to employ. 

I was able to use the skill with >0 MP. Is this an outdated mechanic or did I run into a bug there?--Sambal 20:38, 4 July 2011 (CEST)

Not a bug, just a misinterpretation. The skill itself costs 0 MP to use, but that doesn't restrict it from being used unless you have 0 MP. You can use it at any time in combat, no matter how much MP you have. --Wrldwzrd89 22:01, 4 July 2011 (CEST)