Talk:Disembodied Hand

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Cake-Shaped Arena: I just tried training my disembodied hand in the cake-shaped arena with The Rye's Arena Trainer and it seems to me that the Disembodied Hand behaves a lot like the Green Pixie. Level 11-13: Hide-And-Seek vs. Ghoul Whelp (lv. 6) Level 14-15: Cage Match vs. Grue (lv. 15) Level 16-19: Cage Match vs. Mosquito (lv. 17) My disembodied hand never lost a match, usually gained 5 exp, and gained 4 exp 1 or 2 times. More spading is needed, but if they do act the same (at least for hide and seek and cage match), then the Disembodied hand should have an advantage at the cage match and average hide-and-seek ability. --ThaSupafly 17:32, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've just done 40 adventures with the antique spear and it didn't break, but I don't know how often antique spears are supposed to break, so I'm not sure if this is convincing evidence. Is it? If the spear didn't break, it might be one of the best weapons for the familiar to deal damage with. --DarkerLine 04:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

If I wasn't in hardcore I'd try giving my Bottle-Rocket Crossbow to my familiar. So could someone do it then? --Lemon-claw 04:05, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

  • I tried. It equips, but it doesn't let me shoot bottle-rockets. --Bjorn Freeh 20:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't sure how tou word it right or if it's even wanted, but trying to force a chefstaff onto it gave the message "Your Disembodied Hand isn't proficient in chefstaves, and isn't willing to take the -4 penalty."--Olaf 05:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Moved from the article page, posted by User:Almightysapling: "I don't find this to be the case. Elemental damage bonus doesn't work for me when casting spells, only when doing melee attacks. Bug?" --TechSmurf 05:40, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Are you hitting that spell's damage cap? And are you sure the damage bonus is to spells? "+5 stench damage" has never affected spells in my entire time playing the game, for example. --Flargen 06:04, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

This goes in the talk section but i couldn't figure out how to put it there. I'm bad with computers like that: Weight does affect damage. At level six with the obsidian dagger my hand was doing 11-17 damage. At level 11 it was doing 15-24.--Poundlor 09:28 AM, 1 October 2008

  • The familiar's weight could relate to the Muscle stat in some way. Either on a one-for-one ratio, or something similar. --Falsenames 14:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

sorry, not very good at editing main pages.... with maypole: Name does the Hand Jive around the maypole. with wax lips: Name says, "S'all right" from under the wax lips. with lucky Tam O'Shatner: From... beneath the Tam O'Shanter, Name points at some extra... meat. --Devdogg 14:38, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have it during Rollover equipped with a Time Sword, does it give you the extra 3 adventures?--WARriorer 16:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

  • I don't think anyone knows, at it just came out this morning. We shall find out! --TechSmurf 16:04, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Also, somebody should check if equipping it with the CBS gives the extra pvp fights, seeing as how the CBS has a new enchantment. Could become a favorite familiar for pvpers for that--Alabit 19:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
      • I confirmed (along with another clannie) that equipping the time sword to the disembodied hand gives the three extra rollover adventures. --Saucybandit 05:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I've done a few runs in the Arena. My hand, 6-8 pounds, equipped with a Club of the Five Seasons, is consistently getting 15-round fights against a 7lb Spooky Pirate Skeleton. Went to 13 at 10lb, 12 at 11lb. Earned two lead necklaces in that time. Does this suggest Ultimate Cage Match is best event? It seems logical for a weapon-oriented familiar. --Phantomreader42 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, what special events have been tested? I see the mentions of the Huge Mirror Shard and Gatorskin Umbrella, but does it give Clownosity with a clown Whip? And do you get the bonus if you have a Cardboard Katana and give it the Wakizashi? --Phantomreader42 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Me with Snarling Wolf Shield and Lupine Sword, another sword on the familiar, +27 Spooky Damage. Me with the shield, and only the hand with the sword, +9 Spooky. This seems to indicate that the bonus for having both the sword and shield only applies if you're wielding both, and only once. --Phantomreader42 23:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Equipping it with a Bar Whip does give the +2 weight bonus.--Phantomreader42 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Against monsters in the Sleazy Back Alley, with no +ML, both the hand and myself equipped with Witty Rapiers, I'm clearly getting +4 Myst stats, so stat increasers stack. --Phantomreader42 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I equipped one with a Sword of Static but I don't get the MP regen enhancements adventuring anywhere. Is this a bug or is this supposed to happen--EFG 06:04, 19 October 2008 (UTC)?

I equipped with a Paper Sword, but the attack message is completely missing. All I see is an image of the paper sword during combat. However, it does appear to be hitting, since I failed to hit, but the monster was still defeated.--Dremel 13:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

References

"Guns don't do X damage, <name> does X damage." could be a reference to UHF. In it there is a scene where a guy says something like "Guns don't kill people. I do." But I don't know if Weird Al was referencing something else with that scene.--Kitsunegami 08:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Weird Al was referencing the slogan "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Also, sign your posts, Kitsunegami. --Sparksol 08:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
    • I figured he was probably referencing something. First time I've failed to sign a post that I can remember but that's what comes from trying to think at 4 in the morning. Sorry about that. --Kitsunegami 08:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
      • I think you'll find it's an Eddie Izzrd quote. He makes a big think about the slogan in question, and the line "Guns don't kill people, people do. But the Gun helps.". So... definitely an Izzard reference! --Zan 12:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
        • It's not an Eddie Izzard reference at all. It's a slogan widely used by the NRA and gun rights activists, meaning the person behind the gun is what needs to be controlled, not the gun itself. Eddie Izzard and UHF were both referencing the original slogan. --The KoW 15:19, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
          • Of course it's referencing the original NRA slogan, but the last part "Well, okay, the gun helps." is a direct Izzard quote.--Zan 15:39, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
            • Ah, didn't realize you were referencing just that part. That is very true, and Dress to Kill is an excellent album / movie, haha. (Didn't mean to sound so hateful with my first comment. It must be early.) --The KoW 15:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
              • No worries. Izzard for king! --Zan 21:02, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Obvious Michael Bolton reference in the crossbow use message, I would add it but I'm no good at editing wiki pages.--Desert eagle 05:56, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

"The first rule of hand club is you take X damage" is a reference to Fight Club and it's rules. --raorn 22:00, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

"<name>'s fingers can't do the walking through the obstacle course." is a reference to a song by the punk band Black Flag titled "Let Your Fingers do the Walking." --Fattysack 21:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Doubtful. That song title is a word for word rip off of an ad slogan Ma Bell used to advertise phone books, starting in 1964. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 00:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Hobopolis use?

Do we think it can help by equipping a gatorskin umbrella to get through hobopolis?--Homer13 17:08, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

  • Tried it today, but it didn't work as expected. The test where the umbrella is needed to pass failed when the umbrella was equipped on the familiar.--Beliar Lightbearer 21:15, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Those three mr. store items

Wax lips, gravy pole, and the lucky whatever probably have messages with this guy.--Brion thenotgiant 17:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Message List

Just to make it easier to know what still needs to be checked. Italicized items are the only ones in their category.

--TechSmurf 20:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

--Almighty Sapling 04:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Recently tested the can of fake snow and prehistoric spear for 50 combats each. The can of fake snow had two messages during that time, and the prehistoric spear's messages were all the same as the ones in the spear category. Perhaps not definitive yet, but it's something. --Sparksol 23:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Just did the Flaming Juggler's Balls attack messages. Main page edited. --Needmoney90 03:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I checked the Periodical Paintbrush and added it to the page a month or so ago, but it seems someone deleted it for some reason. There's only one message for the paintbrush. --Sirjeffreyofvistledorf 05:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

  • It's not deleted. It's under artsythings. Since that's what it is. An artsything. Literally. --Flargen 05:39, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

You should seriously change it back. It's a paintbrush. So far it's the only one that can be used as a weapon, but it's still a paintbrush. If someone (such as me) wanted to search the page for the attack message of the paintbrush, it would be easily overlooked the way it is. Plus, "Artsy things" is two words, and I think calling it that goes against the whole point of a wiki...an informational tool. Calling it something that (to the best of my knowledge) it isn't referred to as anywhere in the game seems to hinder the "acquiring of information" (for lack of a better phrase). It's like putting all the swords in a category called "Pointy things", or should I say "pointythings".--Sirjeffreyofvistledorf 05:49, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Take another look at your Periodical Paintbrush. Specifically the line "Type: weapon (1-handed artsything)". The Type line is how it (and all weapons) are catagorized. --Terion 04:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Weapon Bonuses

When you equip a weapon on the Hand do you recieve the weapons bonuses like you do with the Hattrack, or does the hand only use the weapon to attack?--Narcissus 20:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

  • If it's melee/ranged/elemental damage, it's merged into your own attack line. Thus, if you MISS, then you don't get that juicy bonus damage. If it's stat bonus, it's added in as normal (tested with the potato pistol. Qaianna 21:22, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
    • I'm actually adding that to the main page. If it's wrong, feel free to wipe it. Qaianna 21:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Seems like this would be pretty overpowered if you were a muscle class and wanted to equip a second (or third) Brimstone Bludgeon. Will it stack with existing items?

I've equipped the scorpion whip on my Disembodied Hand, but it doesn't seem to be poisoning the enemies. Is this intended?--Aznpride 14:31, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Attack damage

I didn't have the time to do real data collection, but it seems to me its attack damage works like this: The familiar has a base damage range, seen when it isn't equipped with a weapon. This depends on weight. If it has a weapon, then an amount (possibly equal to the weapon's base damage, i.e. 10-20% of weapon power) is added to that damage. Bonus melee/elemental damage doesn't get added to its attacks. --Prestige 11:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

  • I suspect its damage without a weapon is calculated differently than when it has one. From what I've observed at low weights: with a weapon, damage is roughly (X + .1*P) to 2*(X + .1*P), where X is the hand's weight, and P is the power of the weapon. I've been trying to get decent spading at low weights while I have the chance, so I haven't even breached 10 pounds yet. Could be that it only looks linear so far and levels off at higher weights. At low weapon power, I've seen damages up to the upper range of that formula, but at around 40 power and higher, the highest damage I've seen has always been 1 less - could be the factor isn't .1 and there's some odd rounding. At high weapon power, the damage floor seems to be higher than that formula as well. For example, from my own observations with the Antique Spear (power 200), damage ranges from X+23 to 2X+39, pretty consistently. Could be I just didn't get lucky enough to see the extremes, though. Damage without a weapon is much lower than even the rough formula would predict. I haven't done much empty-handed spading - only one fight, actually. Saw 5-8 damage at 7 pounds.--Zathyr 20:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
  • I should add that, indeed, bonus melee damage doesn't have any noticeable effect on the hand's attack damage. Neither does the ML of what you're fighting.--Zathyr 20:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I was getting some wierd damages with my Hand yesterday. I was using a 25 lb Hand with a 40-power S&S sword. I started looking after fighting a kegtank and seeing low damage (then realized it was due to the kegtank.) I would have expected to be getting 29-33 damage (25 + 4-8). Against two infantrymen, I got these series of damages: 38, 39, 56, 41, 37, 30 and 35, 34, 33, 31, 35, 44, 36. Then I switched to the 8-bit realm, and got these damages against various 8-bit critters: 53, 45, 36, 46, 50, 50, 54. Thinking maybe it was something wierd with the S&S sword, I switched my Hand to a serpentine sword, which would give an expected 36-48 damage. Against more 8-bit monsters, I got damages of: 69, 56, 57, 54, 59. All way above what I'd expect. This needs more examination. --Terion 19:21, 25 January 2009 (UTC) More data. I recorded my Hand's damage in the HitS and the Giant Castle for a number of turns. My Hand is 25 pounds (max weight), and I was level 13 through all these tests, in case there's a level effect. I have the actual monsters I fought in my notes, but I don't believe that has an effect, so I'm just listing the damages. I've grouped the damage done to each monster in ( ), in case there was a trend of damage to an individual monster going up or down, but it doesn't seem there was.

  • HitS, 25 pound Hand, serpentine sword (115 power): (56 49 46) (56 49 46) (43 47 45) (45 42 52) (68 58 50 64) (53 51 60) (52 48 46) (61 61 71) (61 66 51) (55 55 56) (64 45 56) (49 49 51) (66 59 48) (50 45 61) (66 49 71) (48 48 66) (54 56 55) (62 45 55) (67 64 65)
    • Damage ranged from 42 to 71, a 30-point spread, much higher than the sword's natural 13-point spread (assuming 11-23 base damage from power.) Greatest spread on an individual creature was 23 (49 to 71). Obviously, way above the expected 25 + (11-23) = 36 to 48 Hand damage.
  • Giant Castle, 25 pound Hand, hippo whip (20 power): (52 40 31) (38 28 47) (53 48 43) (38 44 37) (41 45 49) (46 48 42) (49 49 48) (51 50 32) (33 30 51) (47 51 51) (47 46 38) (30 31 43) (47 41 34) (32 46 53) (35 33 43) (52 40 43) (39 38 35)
    • Lower power weapon, the damage ranged from 28 to 53, a 26-point spread. The hippo whip only has a 3-point spread (2-4) in its base damage. Greatest individual monster spread was 22 points (30-51, 31-52, and 32-53).

This is very wierd, definitely not the current formula of weight + weapon damage. --Terion 20:54, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Looking back at this thread, and the notes above, I think the formula on the main page should be (as its described at the beginning of this section) (W + P/10) to 2*(W + P/10). Note that this means the weight of the familiar has a much greater affect on damage. In the cases above, this formula explains the range of data you are seeing. e.g., at 25 lbs with a serpentine sword, damage should be 36.5 to 73. At 25 pounds with a hippo whip, damage should be 27 to 54. I'll work with one of my characters to validate this, and determine if its round down or round up.--Foggy 17:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

  • A little more. I tested a Disembodied Hand equipped with a goatskin umbrella (power 180) from levels 17 through 23.
    • level 17: 36-67 (avg 53)
    • level 18: 37-71 (avg 54)
    • level 19: 38-73 (avg 56)
    • level 20: 39-76 (avg 57)
    • level 21: 39-75 (avg 59)
    • level 22: 42-78 (avg 61)
    • level 23: 45-80 (avg 61)
    At level 20, I actually do hit the max I would expect (20+18 times 2 = 76). At level 21, I hit the low I expect (21+18). Judging from the data I saw for earlier weights with lighter weights and this data, the data points appear bell-shaped, so extremes are going to be much more difficult to come by. (I had the same issue with determining meat drops).--Foggy 20:28, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

A little more: I finished leveling up my Hand to 25. At 23, I have range from 43-80, 24 lbs a range from 44-84, and 25 48-84. More importantly, averages are consistent with W+P/10 to 2W+P/5. I then ran 81 adventures using a huge spoon (90) instead of a goatskin umbrella. Results: 34-68 damage, average 51.3. The distribution is bell-shaped, which suggests there are two calculations here: one is W to W*2, the other P/10 to P/5, and the results are added together. --Foggy 17:49, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Time Sword?

Does it add extra roll-over adventures? --Devion 15:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes --Depravity 17:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

However, and I guess I'm retarded for having thought otherwise, you don't get the outfit bonus for having the hand carry the time sword. So, giving the hand the time sword, if the other time trappings are equipped, yields 9 total adventures, 3 for each. This enables a total of an 2 more adventures than the total time trappings outfit (plus bonus)if you don't have an off-hand spot in use and equip the sword behind inappropriate prepositions. --Originalcyn 00:37, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Wait, can't you get three more for having the outfit (including time sword), plus an extra time sword on the hand? --silver 22:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you can, but not everyone can afford extra time swords to go with their off-hands or disembodied hands. So if you can only afford one time sword, so if your only time sword is on the disembodied hand and you yourself use a prepositions sword, you'll get two more adventures than you would with a regular time trappings outfit.--Sparksol 22:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Ranged vs. Melee?

If you have a melee weapon, can you give it a ranged weapon (and vice versa)? -PSU Punk 21:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes...I'm currently using a drywall axe and my hand is using Happiness. I assume vice-versa is true as well (melee for the hand while you have ranged equipped). --Method 22:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Brimstone bonus

What happens when you make the hand hold a Brimstone bludgeon while already wielding 6 pieces of brimstone? Does the meat/ML/item bonus stack to 128 or does it cap at 64? --Tripwood 17:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I've just got my hands on a hand, and I'll be testing this out tomorrow at the beanbats. At least as far as the +item and +meat goes. --Sparksol (t|c) 06:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)
100 beanbats later while wearing all six pieces of brimstone and having a second bludgeon on my disembodied hand...and I'm still not sure. I got a range of 53-71 meat, which would be consistent with +84% meat drop (I've got Nimble Fingers on right now) but I also got a bean every time. I don't have much experience with the monster level and stats maths, but I got 24 stats per fight most of the time, and 25 stats once or twice. I'd say it appears to cap out at 64 on the brimstone. --Sparksol (t|c) 05:13, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
And double confirmed on a recent radio show; the bonus goes up per unique item, so using two bludgeons without the bunker would mean you're only getting +32% instead of the possible +64%. --Sparksol (t|c) 04:08, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

+ Meat , + Item

Has anyone tested if the hands passes you the + meat drop and + item drops of a weapon it has equipped?

So far i've only read about + elemental damage, + stat, + melee damage... anyone spaded the + drops? --Worthstream 17:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Clownosity

Just tested the issue of clownosity with the hand, and it does appear to contribute to the character's total for passing the door. Adventured in the Fun House with my character equipped with only Bloody Clown Pants and a Big Red Clown Nose (should be +2 Clownosity). Equipped my Hand with a Balloon Sword (another +2 Clownosity) and the door let me through with no problem. --Tallera257 17:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Origin?

Where does/did this thing come from? --PO8 19:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

  • It hatches from the spooky rattling cigar box, as listed on the page. The cigar box came from Mr. Store as the item-of-the-month for October 2008. --Hellion 19:17, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Sorry, that was stupid of me. Thanks much. --PO8 21:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Class weapon behavior

I'm new at this - I'll let someone else add this to the main page in whatever method is appropriate, but here is a bug report I submitted and the response from Jick regarding totem behavior with the hand.

From Jick (#1) [reply] [quoted]
Date: Wednesday, March 04, 2009, 06:43PM
 
Thanks for the report -- I understand why this is happening --
objects on the Hand count as equipped for all purposes except 
outfits. I think I'm gonna take the easy road and just say that
this is the intended behavior... :)
> O ye tasked with filtering real bug reports from crap -
>
> disembodied hand was equipped with Chelonian Morningstar,
> but not equipped as my familiar. I used empathy of the newt,
> and received 5 adventures per casting, instead of 15. I did
> not have a turtle totem in inventory.
>
> If I equip the disembodied hand as my familiar, while it
> has the morningstar equipped, I get the expected 15 adventures.
>
> sorry for wasting your time if this is expected behavior -
> seemed buggy to me.
>
> Thanks,
> hideouspenguinboy

--Hideouspenguinboy 20:11, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Off-Hand?

Has there ever been any explanation or talk about why the hand can't hold off-hand items? I mean, they are, by definition, one-handed items, right? And I'm assuming you can't zap a spooky rattling cigar box and hatch a Disembodied Off-Hand. --RttlesnkeWhiskey 20:59, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

3-handed weapons

Does this guy have any effect on them? There doesn't seem to be any mention on either this page or the 3-handed weapon page. --Billybobfred 00:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

  • The 3-handed weapons are really just 2-handed weapons that have a funny name. The hand can't use them, and the hand doesn't help in using them. There is no interaction. --Club (#66669) (Talk) 03:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)