Talk:Colonel Mustard's Lonely Spades Club Jacket

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General Chat

ROFL, the effect itself needs to be spaded? How awesome is that? ^_^ --Id the Mildly Confused 02:45, 27 June 2007 (CDT)

  • This is pretty awesome, but are there any prelim results? Guesses? It doesn't do anything to your stats or your health/MP. Could it be that there is not an effect?--Zelandoni 13:33, 27 June 2007 (CDT)
  • It doesn't appear to duplicate other worn equipment effects, I got the exact number of extra adventures as my rollover suit would normally do. --Sparksol 04:16, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
  • It seems quite possible that there is actually no effect beyond the + ???. It might just be referring to the fact that people will try to spade it to see if it gives anything. (the previous unsigned comment was added by User:SkythAegi --Unnatural20 01:40, 5 July 2007 (CDT))
  • Maybe it's randomized each ascension. That'd be awesome, there's always something left to spade! --Missingno 08:57, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
  • Being that it's called the Lonely Spades Club Jacket tell me it was meant to be spaded. How cool is that? --Dibbin 08:54, 12 July 2007 (CDT)
  • I feel awesome just wearing it, maybe that's it.--Fly boy42 15:55, 13 July 2007 (CDT)

Has anybody tried smashing one yet? Maybe it gives some neat powder. If not, I'll smash the thing, I've got a pile of them.--Klowns 10:44, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

When you smash one you get three twinky nuggets. --Sitrukpc 1:53, 11 September 2007 My wish for this jacket is to cancel all active and intrinsic effects while worn. That would be of great help in spading unspaded areas, items and effects going forward.--Reala 22:45, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Wow, I fumble a lot when I wear this jacket. Like, a really lot. --stepinrazor 14:20, 16 July 2007 (CDT)


Completly anecdotal evidence, but while I was wearing the jacket, my chances of getting two of the same item in two consecutive combats with the same monster seemed to increase. Case in point, I put on the jacket as soon as I got it, and The next beatles I fought a few adventures later dropped another one. --Drab Emordnilap 11:37, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd heard some rumor that there are now 'real-time' objects in game. One is clearly the Ruby Tuesday, but what if the Jacket effect changes, say, every fifteen minutes? Or fifteen seconds? Would make spading it out bloody hard for people relying upon adventures/ascenscions/number of papayas/etc. If the effect changes every second, then it may as well be random, given lag, but if there's a predictable pattern... --Terry 13:25, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

  • I think you're reading a weeeeee bit too far into things. Moreover, having an effect that changes every 15 minutes, let along 15 seconds, would be incredibly laggy. If anything, it would change at rollover, during maintainance. --TechSmurf 13:46, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
    • Not necessarily. It doesn't have to update its effect every time increment, it just has to check the clock whenever you click an adventure. "Oh look!", the jacket says, "It has been X time since I was last 'used'. I will now grant my wearer a new effect." I'm willing to bet that there's already a 'check time' in the script when doing adventures anyway, for bookkeeping reasons. But hey, that's what discussion pages are for. Rampant speculation. Mmm... sweet, sweet speculation... --AltyMcAltAlt 01:49, 20 July 2007 (CDT)
  • I believe that this jacket increases item drops. Since spades try to find out things, this jacket uncovers stuff. I might be reading too much meaning into something so small, but probably the effect does not change from day to day, and is just a steady, unchanging item drop increaser. -Coogi Hat Edited 1:59 PM EST August 6, 2007

Let's organize the spading

Well, the "+" indicates that it adds something, doesn't it? So we can probably rule out fumble and crit chance, since these are "x times", not "plus x". So if it's a rather basic (a.k.a. not too obscure) enchantment, it could grant


- + 

 -> adventures at rollover
 -> drops
 -> Items
 -> Meat
 -> Food
 -> Weapons
 -> Probably other types that aren't granted by existing gear
 -> MP to use spells
 -> duration of buffs/spells cast
 -> chance of combat adventures
 -> familiar weight
 -> adventures from food/booze/spleen
 -> fullness/drunkenness/spleen when an item is consumed
 -> stats gained after combat
 -> Monster Level
 -> melee/ranged/spell damage
 -> elemental damage

So... let the spading begin, and feel free to edit if I'm forgetting something or you can rule out something. --Akatosh 10:13, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

I'd say cross out rollover, since the diamonds have that. --MrAndersonMan 06:53, 31 July 2007 (CDT)

Semi-rares are a new mechanic, so what about 'decreases the time between semi-rares'? There's a period where the fortune cookies don't work, so if it changed from 300-odd adventures to 250-odd adventures..? --AltyMcAltAlt 06:47, 3 August 2007 (CDT)

Should we discount the possibility that it may increase one of monster attack/defense while decreasing the other? Overall this would not affect monster level but it would allow for interesting minor strategy changes in combat.--Yiab 13:14, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm under the impression ML values are only calculated off defense, since it is only a monster's defense that contributes to stat gain.--QuantumNightmare 13:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

wondering if

its no effect, that will make it pretty impossible to spade for any effects at all.--Myst44 05:00, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

It definitely has some sort of effect. Jick talked briefly on Radio KoL about how he had to come up with a useful effect for this item that was not immediately noticeable or trackable via strictly monitoring usually observed numbers or effects.Landar 02:02, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

Then we can take off -> adventures at rollover -> MP to use spells -> duration of buffs/spells cast and -> familiar weight. Those are pretty noticable.--Fly boy42 16:37, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

possibly a modifier that modifies other modifiers?--Myst44 02:25, 26 August 2007 (CDT)


______

Does any one else get the feeling that if Jick suggested it is apparent over time it may be an adventure dependent item... Such as after 2000 adventures, or multi-ascensions an effect pops up? --Sleepycali 23:04, 26 August 2007 (PST)

How To Spade?

This is probably a stupid question but I couldn't find a page on it sooo...How exactly does one go about spading? Someone should make a page all about it, could help some people a lot! Jihiro 23:14, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

-Spading is the act of discovering or uncovering new information about the game. When a new area is released, it is generally the spades who make a page for it. Spades do things like fight a certain encounter 1000 times to determine the approximate item drop frequency of each of that encounter's items. Spades do things like work out the item drop bonuses of effects that imply they grant item drops, ditto for meat drops. Things like that. --Wildfire393 00:37, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Jick says 5 effects

Jick on the September 3rd radio show said that the jacket has 5 effects. he also said (paraphrased) that 'Whether or not they are rewarding when you figure them out is up for discussion' --Ashallond 22:05, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

Meat Drop Effect

date: Monday, September 10, 2007 / Bor 3
character: Brian of Loathing (L20 DB)
location: Treasury

equipment: Hat: Bounty-hunting helmet, Colonel Mustard's Lonely Spades Club Jacket, Bottle-rocket crossbow, Flaming talons, Bounty-hunting pants, Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, Zinc Delta of Tranquility, Lucky rabbit's foot

familiar: Baby Gravy Fairy, Eye-pod equipped

buffs/effects: Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Polka of Plenty, Empathy

skills: Liver of Steel, Chronic Indigestion, Powers of Observatiogn, Gnefarious Pickpocketing, Torso Awaregness, Gnomish Hardigness, Cosmic Ugnderstanding, CLEESH, Disco Aerobics, Disco Eye-Poke, Nimble Fingers, Disco Dance of Doom, Mad Looting Skillz, Disco Nap, Disco Dance II: Electric Boogaloo, Crossbow Fever, Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation, Disco Power Nap, Disco Face Stab, Advanced Cocktailcrafting, Ambidextrous Funkslinging, Heart of Polyester, Smooth Movement, Superhuman Cocktailcrafting, Tango of Terror

verified meat drop bonuses:

total: 102% bonus (total 202% meat drop)

meat drop formula: rounddown [unmodified meat drop * (100% + meat drop bonus)]

expected meat drop values in Treasury:

  • base for Knob Goblin Elite Guardsman, 40-65
  • base for Knob Goblin Bean Counter, 48-73
  • expected values after bonus: 80, 82, 84, 86, 88, 90, 92, 94, 96, 98, 101, 103, 105, 107, 109, 111, 113, 115, 117, 119, 121, 123, 125, 127, 129, 131, 133, 135, 137, 139, 141, 143, 145, 147

observed meat drop values: 90, 96, 100, 102, 106, 108, 110, 112, 114, 120, 123, 125, 127, 129, 135, 137, 139

I made an Excel spreadsheet that calculated the expected values for additional meat drop bonuses from the Jacket; when going by increments of 1% (i.e. I didn't test 3.8% meat drop bonus for the Jacket, but did test 3%, 4%, etc.), the only column with all the necessary matching values was that corresponding to an additional 3% meat drop.

Conclusion: 3% meat drop bonus

I would ask that someone confirm this. First, please check my list of stuff to make sure I'm not missing another cause of increased meat drop. Secondly, I'd like to see someone else confirm the values just to be sure Jick didn't put a randomizer into the effect (i.e. what if each of us has a different bonus effect). If you want more details about how to test this mechanism (it requires VERY few adventures), please Kmail either Brian of Loathing (#1194946) or mis2027 (#1136123).

Pending confirmation, I invite anyone to post this effect on the Article page, as well as on the Shirts and Meat from Monsters pages. --Mis2027 15:36, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

  • Very nice find! I had figured this item would have a small +meat bonus along with several other small bonuses, but didn't have a spare character to test it with. I went over your numbers, and this is a real +3% to meat drops. I guess this is a bit of fodder to feed to the main forums.

Also, nice method ;)--QuantumNightmare 23:26, 10 September 2007 (CDT)

Actually, I redid this spading and got a different result. With +142% meat drops, I got (89,75, 85, 92, 68, 94, 72, 92, 82, 87) meat drops in the beanbats. This is consistent with a +1% meat drop. Can you retest this in the beanbats, since we know the base meat drops there so well?--QuantumNightmare 00:25, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

QN, as always, thank you for the assist. However, I have some crazy news.

With ONLY the Jacket, an Automatic catapult, and Polka of Plenty on Brian of Loathing (relevant skills: Gnefarious Pickpocketing and Nimble Fingers), I got these values in the Beanbat Chamber: 58, 60, 62, 62, 64, 65, 67

Known bonus was +80% (i.e. 180% meat drop expected), and these numbers work out to 183%.

I see three possibilities:

  • one of us is too tired to add correctly (not likely)
  • the value is different for different people
  • there's another meat drop bonus I don't know about (incidentally, I'm Blender, so it's not the as-yet unconfirmed Packrat effect)

--Mis2027 02:51, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

P.S. For those that want to join in on the inside joke implied in that wink, QuantumNightmare taught me the meat drop spading method and deserves appropriate recognition for such.

That is one....weird result. While you don't have enough numbers this time to prove the spade jacket has a boost of 3%, your results do completely contradict a 1% bonus. For the record, the beanbat spading was done by a friend of mine wearing the following:
All 3 passives (40%), polka (50%), stainless slacks (20%), toy train (10%), money clip (15%), rabbit's foot (7%), Spade jacket (+unknown). total: 142%
And just now I recruited darkgreycat to send a result. With polka(50%), SS slacks(20%), 3 passives (40%) for a total of 110%, he received (74,70,63,66,74,59,72,66,70,74,80,74,78,61,61) meat. That shows a 3% meat bonus as well.
Luis Sol y Sombrero just added data. With 3 rabbit's feet and polka (+71% meat drops) she received (60,60,62,57,57,64,57,57,58,53,58,55,58,50,60) meat. That's a +2% bonus.
So far we've seen +1% to +3% bonuses, which means one of two things: randomized per player, or randomized per ascension. This leaves two routes to spading this: testing the full range of +meat (does it just vary from +1% to +3%, or can it go higher) and testing how often the +meat effect is randomized (per day, per ascension, per player). Sorry for jumping to conclusions and assuming my 1% was correct.--QuantumNightmare 10:08, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
More testing, with kHALOo. +91% meat drops applied, and (61,71,67,63,67,65,73,57,54,69,54,65,59,54) meat received. That absolutely confirms a 2% meat boost.--QuantumNightmare 10:28, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Can confirm my two 3% datasets were on consecutive days, Bor 3 and Bor 4. Will do a larger set tomorrow to help address the variability issue and rule-out day-to-day.--Mis2027 12:02, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

  • More testing by Doggie Bear. A +1% meat drop was observed today as well. This looks like the value is randomized per ascension, or at least that it stays constant over the course of a few days but is unique per character.--QuantumNightmare 00:56, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

maybe the percentage of the meat drop varies with the level? --Shualdon 13:09, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

  • Doesn't look like level is a likely mechanic - Brian of Loathing is L20, and darkgreycat is L13, and they saw 3%; Luis Sol y Sombrero is L19 and saw 2%.--Mis2027 14:14, 11 September 2007 (CDT)
  • My initial testing was done by Doggie Bear (btw - all my testing has been done by separate individuals, not multis of mine), who at level 30 got a 1% bonus.--QuantumNightmare 14:52, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Remember when doing calculations that the 1-3% observed meat drop might not be a statistically significant difference from a 2% or 2.5% meat drop, calculate the certainty that the meat drop modifier actually varies. Also, I almost hate to suggest it, but the amount of meat drop bonus may depend on the meat drop bonus afforded you by other things. Confirming this could be difficult, though.--Yiab 13:11, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm not worried about statistically significant results, because of the way that Mis2027 and I are calculating these meat bonuses. We aren't taking a few hundred samples and taking an average - that would make 1% impossible to determine from 3%. What we are doing is finding out the meat drops, and then working backwards to find out which +meat boosts can possibly give this set of meat drops. Remember, meat drops do not fall into a constant range when boosted, they fall into predictable sets of data. In doing so, we can say with complete certainty that three different meat drops have been found here, even if the difference in percent is minuscule.
Also, we are not saying that a meat drop bonus of between 1 and 3% has been found. We are saying that meat drop bonuses of EXACTLY 1% and 2% and 3% have been found.--QuantumNightmare 13:44, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Sorting results already on this page:

+meat : spade jacket contribution

  • +71% : +2%
  • +80% : +3%
  • +91% : +2%
  • +102% : +3%
  • +110% : +3%
  • +142% : +1%

Looks like the spade jacket does not alter meat drops depending on your initial +meat equipment.--QuantumNightmare 14:52, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

  • Tested on another character, Tenderloin. +3.0% meat boost.--QuantumNightmare 15:39, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

I adventured with established +85% meat equipment and got meat drops of 13,15,16. These drops can only occur at +88% meat. For me, the jacket is +3% meat. I suggest we discard the allegation of the +1% boost. --Isionous 23:43, 18 April 2008 (CDT)

  • I can confirm that the +1.0% bonus did in fact happen. Mis2027 and I showed that the bonus varies at least between +1.0%, +2.0% and +3.0%, which is somewhat expected given the nature of this item. No other effects vary like this... but the entire item is created to be a puzzle for spades to solve.-QuantumNightmare 23:48, 18 April 2008 (CDT)

Variability

Over the course of the past week, Brian of Loathing (one of my multis) has consistently seen +3% meat drop. As such, the variation is not on a day-to-day basis. The remaining possible sources of variability:

  • per ascension
  • per player, but constant over all ascensions (similar to demon names)
  • per KoL month (this would be unprecedented, but easy to code)

--Mis2027 19:13, 15 September 2007 (CDT)

I've had Doggie Bear run more tests for me. His jacket has consistently given +1.0% meat during his last ascension, and he recently ascended. This run, his jacket is giving a 3 or 4% bonus (further testing needed to confirm range). But a +1% bonus is ruled out, meaning that the jacket does in fact vary per ascension.--QuantumNightmare 19:56, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

Speculation: Are the five effects all set at the same level of bonus within a given ascension for a given player? (See Item drop bonus below for evidence that Brian of Loathing saw the same bonus on meat drop and item drop.)--Mis2027 15:42, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

Does NOT alter Combat Frequency

Tested the effect of wearing the Jacket in The Haunted Bedroom with Ring of conflict, Fresh Scent, The Sonata of Sneakiness, and Smooth Movements active - saw zero combat adventures in 100 turns.

Tested the of wearing the Jacket at The Icy Peak with Monster bait, Hippy Stench, and Carlweather's Cantata of Confrontation active - saw zero non-combat adventures in 100 turns.

Was NOT wearing the Yendorian Finery, had no alterations to monster level, and there was no song playing in The Haunted Ballroom.

I think we can safely say that the Jacket has no classic effect on combat frequency (i.e. not a 5% modifier), but I guess since Jick wrote the rules, he can also modify them - can't rule out a 1% modifier, for example.

--Mis2027 12:02, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

I'd assume anything the shirt does will be on the order of 1-3%, like the meat bonus we've found. As such, I think we need to look out for the possibility of a 1% bonus to combat rates or noncombat rates (possibly switching between the two with each ascension). Unfortunately, we need around 350-400 turns to rule out a 1% change in the combat rate.--QuantumNightmare 12:43, 11 September 2007 (CDT)

Brian of Loathing has done 550 turns wearing the Jacket in The Haunted Bedroom with Ring of conflict, The Sonata of Sneakiness, Smooth Movements, and Fresh Scent and saw 100% non-combat adventures. This basically rules out an increased combat frequency effect of the Jacket.--Mis2027 09:36, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

Brian of Loathing has done 448 turns wearing the Jacket at The Icy Peak with Monster bait, Carlweather's Cantata of Confrontation, and Hippy Stench and saw 100% combat adventures. Will do another 102 to be sure, but this almost rules out an increased non-combat frequency (i.e. decreased combat frequency) effect of the Jacket.--Mis2027 09:36, 21 September 2007 (CDT)

  • 550 turns done, no non-coms...it doesn't alter combat frequency--Mis2027 19:50, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Item drop bonus

I've been coordinating methods with a few spades, as none of my multis have torso. Lucy Sol Y Sombrero has been testing a possible +item drop bonus, and we are close to confirming there is at least a +1% bonus. Further testing is being done to find the magnitude of the bonus, but it should be on the same order of magnitude as meat drops.

I'd suggest the bonuses from this jacket are +1-3% items, +1-3% meat, +1-3% initiative, +1-3 DA, and maybe a +1-3% combat modifier (either +combats or +noncombats). All these should be tested. Meat is confirmed, and item bonus will be soon.--QuantumNightmare 19:56, 19 September 2007 (CDT)

Brian of Loathing can confirm an item drop bonus of greater than 1% and less than 4%...still collecting data.--Mis2027 10:53, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

  • P.S. In honor of yesterday, I be compiling these data on the pirate statistical programming language and environment, Rrr.--Mis2027 14:54, 20 September 2007 (CDT)
  • Data in total: Brian of Loathing in the Beanbat Chamber...failed drop observed at 96% known item drop bonus...450 consecutive drops at 97% known item drop bonus
  • conclusion: Brian of Loathing is seeing at least a 2% item drop bonus, and has a 99% liklihood of actually having a 3% item drop bonus
  • speculation: Are the values for all the bonuses the same in a given ascension for a given player?--Mis2027 15:42, 20 September 2007 (CDT)

Damage Absorption

I've been testing the spade jacket against the club jacket in the basement with a buffed moxie of 1. Basement ML doesn't vary, so that removes a big source of damage variation. My findings:

  • With Club jacket:
    • Damage:number of occurrences
    • 127:2 times
    • 128:6 times
    • 129:3 times
    • 130:4 times
    • 131:10 times
    • 132:7 times
    • 133:2 times
    • Average: 130.26
  • With Spade Jacket:
    • Damage:number of occurrences
    • 127:4 times
    • 128:10 times
    • 129:8 times
    • 130:8 times
    • 131:11 times
    • 132:4 times
    • 133:2 times
    • Average: 129.68

This implies a DA bonus of 2.4 with the spade jacket, which was found to give +3% meat. Of course, this test is subject to a huge amount of RNG, but this shows that more spading is required.--QuantumNightmare 15:39, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

For fear someone asks, that's a p-value of 0.13, suggesting a weak trend - in short, I agree with QN that we simply need more data. Great start, QN, and excellent thought to use the Basement! I would remind everyone working on these types of stats that your Moxie and Monster Level are two of the biggest modifiers of monster damage, so keeping those constant is key!--Mis2027 18:50, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

  • An easy way to keep your moxie constant is to use Majorly Poisoned by pouring the wrong wine in the spookyraven cellar. This provides -90% moxie, and -11 moxie as well. If needed, a cheap patchouli incense stick can be used to provide an additional -30% moxie. This has two advantages: it keeps your moxie constant, and keeps your moxie at 1 so as to maximize monster damage. In order to notice a small bonus to DA, we'll need to receive as much damage as possible. Obviously 130 damage isn't enough (as the damage range is the same in both cases), and I'll have to go deeper into the basement. Also, by being beaten up each round I make sure to keep by moxie at 1 even without the incense, and make sure I fight the exact same ML monster each round.--QuantumNightmare 22:17, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Going deeper into the basement... again with 1 moxie.

  • Naked: 232-241 damage
  • Club Jacket: 171-178 damage
  • Spade Jacket: 171-178 damage.

I'll try going deeper, but it looks like this does NOT change DA.--QuantumNightmare 20:46, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Even deeper....

  • Club Jacket: 291-303 damage
  • Spade Jacket: 290-303 damage

Note the upper end is the same, and the lower end is almost the same (most likely due to sample size). When taking this much damage, even a bonus of +2DA would give a difference of at least 1 damage. I'll need to go even deeper to test that +1 DA isn't being applied, but a bonus however slight to DA is looking less and less likely.--QuantumNightmare 19:35, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

Combat Initiative?

I'm unable to get Brian of Loathing's Combat Initiative low enough to ever fail initiative (short of Cunctatitis, which would negate everything else), so I can't test if the Jacket has a small init bonus. The list of modifiers on the Combat Initiative page may help others spade this out. Remember, your base initiative is based on your primary unbuffed stat and the monster's initiative.--Mis2027 20:27, 23 September 2007 (CDT)=

  • The method used to spade initiative is to delevel your mainstat down to 1 by using lab potions. This is obviously very costly, but might be useful on a multi that has just recently ascended.--QuantumNightmare 22:17, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
  • I think I'll push Brian of Loathing through the void today, so I can start spading initiative soon.--Mis2027 12:26, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

I've finally got Brian of Loathing, a Disco Bandit, at 50 Muscle and 0 Moxie. I'm going to do testing in The Dire Warren, base init 45 (expect 55% init on my part), as it's all combat, so maximal use of adventures. I can drop the base init to 0% exactly using Sk8board (+15%), Outrageous sombrero (-20%), Tap shoes (-20%), and Slow Talkin' Elliot's dogtags (-30%). Then, if I ever get init, it is likely due to the Jacket. I'll use General Sage's Lonely Diamonds Club Jacket as a control condition to be sure.--Mis2027 07:39, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

  • Brian is about three days away from finishing Ronin, at which time I can spade much more effectively. Meanwhile, I'm trying make sure I have decent setup, thinking through methods, etc., so any feedback (if warranted) is appreciated. I plan to use SBIP and Chain-mail monokini to round out my equipment.--Mis2027 11:15, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
  • Control condition established (almost)...250 turns down without getting initiative (using Knob Goblin eyedrops and Knob Goblin nasal spray to prevent stat gain). Will do 50 more to get a solid 95% confidence, then do the Colonel's jacket.--Mis2027 16:46, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
You might want to test with only -50% initiative, to see whether beanbats really are exactly 55% initiative. Since you are looking for an event rather than a non-event, it shouldn't add much time to your spading.--QuantumNightmare 22:58, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
  • I'm in The Dire Warren, not Beanbat Chamber, but yes, a positive control is already planned to confirm the HCO data.--Mis2027 23:52, 7 October 2007 (CDT)
  • positive control failed ... see below for revised plan

Character: Brian of Loathing (DB, Moxie = 0)
Location: The Dire Warren
Equipment: Outrageous sombrero (-20%), Bamboo bokuto, Chain-mail monokini, Tap shoes (-20%), Slow Talkin' Elliot's dogtags (-30%)
Effects: Cletus's Canticle of Celerity (effect) (+20%, allowed for more careful control of some of the other test conditions); Wasabi Sinuses, Peeled Eyeballs (to prevent stat gain)
w/ General Sage's Lonely Diamonds Club Jacket: got init in 0 out of 300 adventures
w/ Colonel Mustard's Lonely Spades Club Jacket]]: got init in 4 out of 300 adventures
Conclusion: causes increased Combat Initiative on a similar magnitude to the item drop and meat drop
Note: This strongly suggests the base init for the Fluffy bunny is 50%, not 45%; I will continue confirming this. --Mis2027 10:39, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

  • Nice work. But why did you use celerity just to have the outrageous sombrero cancel out it's effects? It's just as likely that celerity gives +15% instead of 20% as it is that the fluffy bunnies are 50% instead of 45%.--QuantumNightmare 14:32, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
  • Point well taken, and I'm already doing a set of runs without Celerity and the Tap shoes. The reason for them was that I was doing an entire set of different values, and having a number of modifiers was the best controlled way to do it (just to be 100% sure, for example, that a third accessory didn't slow me down or that lack of pants didn't make a difference, etc.). I will report the reconfirmed, or modified, finding once I have it. I should say, however, that my testing at 45% did NOT have Celerity, and definitely showed no effect.--Mis2027 16:52, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
  • Did 60 turns as above but without Celerity, without Tap shoes, and with General's jacket...saw no init; if the bunny's base were 45%, I'd have had a 95% chance to have gotten init within that time. I did another 45 turns with Colonel's jacket substituted and saw init...this is pretty solid evidence that bunny's base is 50% and the Colonel increases initiative. I'm thinking he also makes cheap fried chicken.--Mis2027 07:53, 14 October 2007 (CDT)

Bonus Damage? (unlikely)

Note that current game mechanics use Muscle and Bonus Melee Damage for all attacks, while Bonus Ranged Damage and Bonus Spell Damage only impact those types of attacks. Thus, it should be possible to distinguish them, although I'd expect Bonus Melee Damage if any.

People will need to use methods similar to those listed in the section on Damage Absorption, holding Monster Level, Weapon Power, and Muscle constant.--Mis2027 20:27, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

  • I'd expect any bonuses to be on the order of 1-3%, something that isn't obvious at first glance. Something like bonus damage is too obvious... but is well worth double checking.--QuantumNightmare 22:17, 23 September 2007 (CDT)
  • I've just done a bunch of turns comparing General's and Colonel's for melee, ranged, and spell...no effect seen.--Mis2027 15:33, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Stat Gain? (unlikely)

I've not seen any evidence for one, but it should be easy for others to confirm (ideally not on a Stat Day, of course).--Mis2027 20:27, 23 September 2007 (CDT)

Did more testing in a few other areas, and still seeing absolutely no effect - did both The Dire Warren and The Junkyard, so both absolute and percentage increases would both have been noticed most likely.--Mis2027 15:33, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Critical Hit Chance?

I strongly doubt this is one of the effects, but I did see 15 crits with Colonel's jacket and 10 crits with General's jacket over 150 turns each - this is well within RNG variation, but a possible effect nonetheless. Given how unlikely this is, however, I suggest efforts are probably better spent elsewhere, unless you can do this simultaneously with other work.--Mis2027 15:52, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

Fumble Chance?

Over 100 turns each, I saw 6 fumbles with Colonel's jacket and 8 fumbles with General's jacket. Very unlikely there's any effect here, but if the effect is small (e.g. 1-in-20 vs. 1-in-22), it would require many more turns to spade this out. Given how unlikely this is, I suggest efforts are probably better spent elsewhere, unless you can do this simultaneously with other work.--Mis2027 15:52, 24 September 2007 (CDT)

PvP Minis

Just wanting to point out that some PvP minis can be used to figure out the bonus(es) your spades jacket is giving you. The current season has an init challenge, for example, and your score in it will include the bonus from this jacket when you are wearing it (+1% for me this run). --Flargen (talk) 02:19, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Are we done?

It seems the description now has 5 effects and a mechanism described that cover all spading documented here. The DA data are skim, and I don't see ML data, but are folks satisfied? If the data are on another site, my apologies, but I didn't see any reference to such.--Mis2027 (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

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