Talk:Bounty-Hunting Rig

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Sum Total of Parts

The total percent on the outfit, unless intrinsic, is not 50%, its 42.2%, the percentage of each piece has to be taken off of the whole, rather than added together. - n3bul4

Unless the item drop mechanic has changed with NS13, that's not the case. The % bonus you have is a game statistic, and it's this total bonus which is applied when seeing if an item drops. --Starwed 21:52, 4 July 2007 (CDT)

The simple drop chance increase would not worth that much work.--Nord 12:36, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Acquisition of the Outfit

The number of days assumed to get these items in the notes on a lot of these pages doesn't take into account that you can get 2 lucre a day if you ascend. - n3bul4

Possible Effects?

I saw it mentioned elsewhere so I thought I would try it out. I normally complete the 5 raver giants in about 39-44 turns, today I did it in the full bounty hunting rig and got them all in 29 adventures. Someone good at spading is probably already checking into this, and I only have a test-case of 1, but that seems like more then just RNG luck there. --Plater (t|c) 21:25, 25 September 2007 (CDT)

It may increase the daily hunting limit. (just an idea)

Jick said in his last radio show that there was no way to do more than one bounty a day, though.--Promeatius 08:55, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

  • Perhaps an increase in lucre payout?--Galapagos James 10:05, 12 July 2007 (CDT)

Ascension is a way, to do more than one bounty a day :). Lucre payout increase would be much better, and maybe a bit more logical, but (IMHO) imbalanced too.

My guess is that it has an effect similar to the odor extractor and (presumably) the dog and the skill book. Then again, it may allow certain "trophy" items to drop from selected monsters around the kingdom, which could be distinct from the items the BHH wants or could allow you to collect BHH items before he asks you to. Or, it could just be a simple item drop bonus and/or a simple combat rate increaser.--Yiab 11:32, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Has anyone tried to auto-sell items with the outfit equiped? Maybe it increases the auto-sell price. The artist's text about careing for nothing but meat gave me the idea.--Draco

  • That sounds exactly like the sort of thing its effect would be - infinite meat. Simply create 10 dense meat stacks, and resell them in the outfit for more meat...repeat. Hooray infinite meat bug! /sarcasm. --J12601 17:52, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

You obviously can't do more than one bounty in a day, but has anyone tried collecting BHH items after the limit has been reached? ex. 14 pink eyes from albino bats, possibly with rig you can collect 28, 42 and turn them in for 1,2,3 filthy lucre? --JumboJim 10:21, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

I had the outfit equipped when doing bounties, and they still cut-off. I didn't try getting the bounty while outfitted, so I can try that tomorrow.--Mis2027 16:36, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Has anyone considered the possibility that the effect is related to the effectiveness of the odor extractor? It might be that the outfit effect is that it simply increases the effectiveness of the odor extractor skill. --Thebigbrainiac 10:47, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Tattoo

Got the outfit today, no sign of any stat effect or special skill while wearing it. The tattoo is a meat stack.--Dannyboy 23:49, 6 August 2007 (CDT)

A meat stack tattoo? Maybe the outfit increases meat drops when worn. Hopefully I'll get the three items soon.--Beliar Lightbearer 12:16, 7 August 2007 (CDT)

Combat Frequency

The Outfit page suggests that this outfit causes an increased liklihood of combat adventures. My data support this so far:

adventures per condition: 100
character: mis2027 (L17 Sauceror)
location: Sonofa Beach date: Friday, August 10, 2007 / Starch 4

equipment (all times): Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, Zinc Delta of Tranquility, Mr. Accessory Jr., Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle

familiar (all times): Flaming Gravy Fairy, Mayflower bouquet equipped

buffs (all times): Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Polka of Plenty, Empathy

pants, experimental condition: Bounty-hunting pants (as per Bounty-Hunting Rig)
pants, control condition: Snowboarder pants
note: both pants power 100; effects of item drop vs. damage absorption should neither effect combat frequency

combat frequency, control: 7%
combat frequency, experimental: 12%
note: exactly 5% increase, as per all Combat Frequency modifiers!
p = 0.05, so not quite perfect, but very close

--Mis2027 15:49, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

  • Here's an easy test: run -20% combats and no +ML in the bedroom, with this outfit on. If you get any combats, this outfit increases combat frequency.--QuantumNightmare 22:01, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Bedroom Testing: adventures: 120
character: mis2027 (L17 Sauceror)
date: Sunday, August 12, 2007 / Starch 6
equipment (all times): Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, Mr. Accessory Jr., Ring of conflict, Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting pants, Bounty-hunting rifle
familiar (all times): Flaming Gravy Fairy, Mayflower bouquet equipped
buffs (all times): Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Polka of Plenty, Empathy, The Sonata of Sneakiness, Fresh Scent
song playing: Sono Un Amanten Non Un Combattente
combat adventures: NONE
Can we be sure that the mechanic works this perfectly? If yes, my speculation is just wrong. To be fair, I should probably do some controls, e.g. 120 turns without the Rig and 120 turns without the Rig but with Hippy Stench (all other modifiers the same).
--Mis2027 14:54, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

The bedroom has a 20% combat rate, and you reduced this rate to 0% using items, buffs and effects. The only way to get combat adventures is to have something (+ML, or this outfit's effect) increase your combat odds. Running 100 turns twice and getting within 3% of the average each time just shows RNG, while this test proves that the bounty hunter outfit does NOT increase combats.--QuantumNightmare 15:42, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

I did control conditions on another character without the outfit and +/- Hippy Stench - allowing for some variance, things behaved as expected, so I suspect that QuantumNightmare is correct, this outfit may not increase Combat Frequency.--Mis2027 17:22, 12 August 2007 (CDT)

I think that this outfit should help you make bounties. so the idea of increasing combat frequency is legitimate... --Shualdon 01:55, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

Unfortunately, it's less about what you think than what Jick thinks :-P That said, the p-value for Mis2027's data is 0.002, so take your pick of which highly unlikely event you think occurred. Is it possible that this works to multiply base combat frequency rather than add to it like other combat frequency modifiers, or that the amount it adds depends on the base combat frequency? That could explain why a 0% combat frequency was unmodified. --Deusnoctum 01:10, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Decent point - I have some more controls planned (e.g. testing the inverse effect, can the outfit block all non-combat adventures when combined with a few other modifiers in The Penultimate Fantasy Airship and The Icy Peak), but I'm also going to start looking for other effects. So far, it clearly doesn't directly impact bounty hunting yield or availability, and I've not seen any more item drop than would be expected from +50%, but I am continuing to check.--Mis2027 07:10, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

"The Horse is Dead" (at least big picture):
location: Icy Peak
date: Monday, August 13, 2007 / Starch 7
character: mis2027
equipment (all times): Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Ring of cold resistance, Monster bait, Mr. Accessory Jr.
familiar (all times): Flaming Gravy Fairy, Mayflower bouquet equipped
buffs (all times): Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, Polka of Plenty, Empathy, Carlweather's Cantata of Confrontation
song playing: none
experimental condition (as above): 2 of 10 adventures non-combat
control condition (add Hippy Stench): 0 of 30 adventures non-combat
conclusion: it's not a classic Combat Frequency modifier
--Mis2027 18:39, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

Very nice, complete spading. The sample size at the peak is small, but you were looking for a simple yes/no answer and received it. Moving on to testing item drops, here's a nice method: use the beanbats. Enchanted beans have a drop rate of exactly 50%, so if you apply +100% item drops then they will drop every single time. This means that if you apply +60% item drops as well as the BHH suit, and have a bean fail to drop then the outfit supplies less than +40% item drops. Keep increasing this +60% item drops until the presence of the BHH outfit is enough to tip your overall +item drop to 100%. This starts off fast, and get's annoyingly slow near the end.--QuantumNightmare 21:11, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

maybe this costume increase combat frequency of the monster that drops a bounty if you're in a bounty quest...? --Shualdon 10:46, 13 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm too lazy to crunch numbers, but here's some raw data. There's three enemies in the bat hole, and a 100% combat rate, so it should take me 14*3 = 42 adventures to clear the quest.

Character: Colbear2, level 10 Seal Clubber
Date: Aug 14th, Starch 8th
Skills Used: None
Buffs: None
Familiar: 20-lb stinky gravy fairy
Quest: 14 pink bat eyes from the bat hole (albino bats)
Equipment: Bounty-Hunting Rig
Chintzy Seal Pendant
Bonerdagon Necklace
Porquoise Eyebrow Ring
Ant Rake
(A)lbino bat, (R)egular Bat, (P)ine Bat
Enemies: paarrprprpapapaaprpppaarppaarpraarparrrprpa
Total: 43 turns, 14 albino bats.<p> Not a very large sample size, but a drastic change would have shown up. Probably doesn't increase combat rate of bounty monsters. --Colbear 03:23, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Even MORE Item Drop?

location: Beanbat Chamber
character: mis2027
date: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 / Starch 8
equipment (all times): Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Mr. Accessory Jr.
familiar: none
songs: none
control condition: Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle and Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric
experimental condition: no monocle, no buffs
control, expected drop rate: 100% (confirmed)
experimental, expected drop rate: 89.8% (51.3% x 1.75)
experimental, observed drop rate: 71 out of 75 adventures
conclusions:

  • added drop bonus must be less than 20%
  • very possible that there's a 10% item drop bonus (5% and 15% are less likely), resulting in an expected drop rate of 94.9%, i.e. 71.175 out of 75 turns

more research to follow, but this looks promising...
note: saw some VERY limited preliminary evidence for increased meat drop, too
--Mis2027 16:36, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Actually, this data suggests a +15% to +20% item drop boost. Beanbat drop rate is 50.0% (not 51.3%) so you have confirmed that the drop rate bonus must be less than 25%, due to the 4 missed beans. Using this value of 50.0%, we get an added bonus of 18.9% from the outfit in a small sample size. Try adding another +5% (makeshift cape or grateful dead shirt) item drop, and seeing if any beans fail to drop.
Also, I can quickly test out a possible meat drop bonus. If you record 7 or 8 unique meat drop values from the beanbats with polka running (and let me know if you have any other +meat effects on), I can tell you the exact meat drop bonus.--QuantumNightmare 19:32, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

location: Beanbat Chamber
character: mis2027
date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 / April 1
equipment (all times): Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Mr. Accessory Jr.
familiar: none
songs: none
buffs: Object Detection, Polka of Plenty turns: 150
beans: 149
test for +10% item drop from outfit: Chi-Square p-value = 0.015
test for +15% item drop from outfit: Chi-Square p-value = 0.150
test for +20% item drop from outfit: must be wrong...I'd have always gotten beans
conclusion: +15% item drop

meat drop values: 46, 48, 49, 51, 52, 54, 56, 57, 59, 60, 62
looks like +10% meat drop to me...QN or someone else care to confirm?
--Mis2027 10:11, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

  • The meat drops you listed show a meat bonus of +60% applied. Taking into account the +50% from polka, there is an extra +10% applied. So +10% meat is confirmed.--QuantumNightmare 19:46, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

PROVEN WRONG - it was Expert Panhandling

Mis2027: The item drop bonus on Object Detection has not been fully confirmed at this point (it COULD be anywhere from 0-5% based on this thread), so your test is still inconclusive.

A good test at this point would be: 1. wear the Bounty-Hunting Rig, a Mr. Accessory Jr., a makeshift cape, a lucky rabbit's foot, and nothing else (nor any effects/item familiar); 2. spend 500 turns in the Beanbat Chamber, or as many turns as it takes to miss a bean, whichever comes first. If you spent 500 turns and got 500 beans, the Rig's total item drop bonus is 65%; otherwise, it's 60%.

At least 500 turns are necessary because any less would result in a small (.05%) chance of getting a false negative. I say this because spades have made false conclusions based on similar probabilities in the past. --Dalgar 12:16, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Actually, if Object Detection might be less than 5%, wouldn't 20% still be a valid candidate? I can retest the same run replacing Object Detection with the Makeshift cape to distinguish between 15% and 20%, and with Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle to distinguish 10% and 15%. In either case, ANY failed drops suggest a value at or below the lower number for that test, while no failed drops would likely mean at least the upper value (at 200 turns, there'd be a 0.6% chance of the item drop bonus being the lower; it would take only 300 turns to reach a 0.05% chance). Sound good?--Mis2027 13:19, 15 August 2007 (CDT)

Yep, sounds good. --Dalgar 06:00, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

location: Beanbat Chamber
characters: mis2027 & Captain Cream (are you ready for Mischief Day?)
date: Thursday, August 16, 2007 / April 2

round 1 (Captain Cream, L19 Sauceror, 0 ascensions):
equipment: Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle
familiar: none
songs: none
buffs: Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric
item drop bonuses (known): 80%
hypothesis: BHR item drop bonus is 20%
turns to failed item drop: 137
conclusion: reject hypothesis; BHR item drop bonus is less than 20%
ad hoc hypothesis: BHR item drop bonus is greater than 10% - in the 136 adventures preceding the failed drop, there would have been less than a 0.1% false negative rate had the item drop bonus been 10%

round 2 (Captain Cream, L19 Sauceror, 0 ascensions):
equipment: Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle, Makeshift cape
familiar: none
songs: none
buffs: Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric
item drop bonuses (known): 85%
hypothesis: BHR item drop bonus is 15%
turns: 240 (100% bean drop)
conclusion: failure to reject the hypothesis
analysis: if BHR item drop bonus were 10%, the false negative rate for these rounds would have been 0.23% (see below).

round 3 (mis2027, L17 Sauceror, 3 ascensions):
equipment: Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Mr. Accessory Jr., Makeshift cape
familiar: none
songs: none
buffs: none
item drop bonuses (known): 80%
hypothesis: BHR item drop bonus is 20%
turns to failed item drop: 32
conclusion: reject hypothesis; BHR item drop bonus is less than 20%

round 4 (mis2027, L17 Sauceror, 3 ascensions):
equipment: Bounty-hunting helmet, Bounty-hunting rifle, Bounty-hunting pants, Mr. Accessory Jr., Baron Von Ratsworth's monocle
familiar: none
songs: none
buffs: none
item drop bonuses (known): 85%
hypothesis: BHR item drop bonus is 15%
turns: 105 (100% bean drop)
conclusion: failure to reject the hypothesis
analysis: if BHR item drop bonus were 10%, the false negative rate for these rounds would have been 7% (see below).

meta-analysis: Above, 345 turns were observed at 85% known item drop bonuses and not a single failed drop was seen. The false negative rate were the item drop bonus actually 10% would have been 0.016%.

CONCLUSION: I have a lot of enchanted beans, and it's a +15% item drop bonus (total for outfit +65%) and +10% meat drop bonus.

NOTE: Due to the assumption of 5% increments here, there is still a possibility of some other values:
false negative rate if real value is +11%: 0.094%
false negative rate if real value is +12%: 0.54%
false negative rate if real value is +13%: 3.1% (this seems viable)
false negative rate if real value is +14%: 17.74% (viable)
values 16-19% cannot be rejected due to the way in which these tests were performed
--Mis2027 18:17, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

To be explicitly clear, spading the 1% incremental values would require collecting a number of the rewards from the L12 Quest and doing TONS of turns in the Beanbat Chamber - at the moment, I have one for 8% and one for 11%, and the Lucky rabbit's foot gives me 7%, so I can spade pretty well for all values except 11% and 16% bonus:

situations with the BHR plus another 30% as above (rounds 1 and 3):
- test for 12%: add Zinc Delta of Tranquility
- test for 13%: add Lucky rabbit's foot

situations with the BHR plus another 25% (either Mr. Accessory Jr. -or- Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric plus Makeshift cape):
- test for 14%: add Uranium Omega of Temperence
- test for 17%: add Zinc Delta of Tranquility
- test for 18%: add Lucky rabbit's foot

test for 19% would use BHR, Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, and Uranium Omega of Temperence

I plan to work my way down from 19%, as failed drops are an instant indication to move on then. Any additional thoughts? --Mis2027 18:42, 16 August 2007 (CDT)

Got failed drops at 81% - 83% "known" item drop bonus, thus ruling out 17% and greater as the BHR bonus.--Mis2027 16:42, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

  • I doubt most items and effects have the correct item drop bonus listed on the wiki. Use equipment, or well-studied buffs like phat loot. Just keep this in mind when you do your spading.--QuantumNightmare 23:57, 17 August 2007 (CDT)

The End?

Did 1500 turns at known 85% item drop bonus in the Beanbat Chamber with no failed drops. If the BHR item drop bonus were 14%, this event would have had a 0.05% liklihood, so I feel 99.95% certain that the value is greater than 14%.

Investigating 16% by using BHR, Fat Leon's Phat Loot Lyric, and two lucky rabbit's feet.--Mis2027 12:36, 24 August 2007 (CDT)

Got a failed drop in just over 200 turns at 84% known item drop bonus.

CONCLUSION: MUST be less than 16%, and there's a 99.95% chance it's greater than 14%. I think the item drop bonus can safely be called at 15%.

As stated previously, we already WRONGLY have proven the meat drop bonus to be 10%.--Mis2027 09:36, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

The meat drop increase is nagging me for some reason. Every outfit has a single effect, while you've shown the BHH to have two. While the +item drop spading was very nicely done, is it possible for the +10% meat to have come from a permanent skill? In past spading I have forgotten about the +40% meat in intrinsics that are possible to accumulate, so can you double-check for me that no permanent skills were present to boost meat drops by the unexplained 10% found here?--QuantumNightmare 21:15, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

Wow, good call - totally forgot about Expert Panhandling. Will update all pages.--Mis2027 08:37, 29 August 2007 (CDT)

Female Picture

uploaded the female picture... --Shualdon 15:43, 5 September 2007 (CDT)