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Safe Adventuring template?

I think it would be a good idea to create a template for safe adventuring and put it in use for all of the monsters (the minimum Moxie required to never get hit). All of the values could be stored on one page, and then the template could call up the specific monster's value from the one, centralized page. --Ihmhi 10:10, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

  • Since I have recently found out the numbers are all the same (Monster Level +9), I suppose the suggested "Combat Template" (suggested a few sections down) would be a much better option. --Ihmhi 01:55, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
  • You mean like another line listing that? The average user probably knows how to add 9 to a number, but for completeness I'll add it and see if anyone complains.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)


This Wiki seems to be sorely lacking in Redirects. Making them is very mundane... the general rule s that for the item "Knob Goblin chow mein", you would also make "knob goblin chow mein" and "Knob Goblin Chow Mein". Now multiply this by all of the items... this is something that ought to be made into a long-term project. --Ihmhi 13:56, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

  • True, it's kind of frustrating that you have to mind your capitalization all the time. Maybe we could set up a task force to create redirect pages? Like, someone does all the hats, someone does all the ranged weapons, someone..etc etc?? Just throwing the idea around. I would be glad to help. --Disarray 13:02, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
    • The only problem is I used to get dead links when miscapitalizing. I don't like linking to redirects and unfortunately I can't tell very easily now. No biggie though. *nag*--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
  • It seems some people are totally for capitalization redirects, since this is a wiki let's have a vote. I'm totally against them. They're useless and balloon the numbers of pages/clutter the wiki. For ease of access without needing to remember specific capitalization of page, the search engine's "go" function already takes care of you; typing "the cRotChety wizaRd" brings you directly to the page, if it doesn't, the page usually the first result. We don't want to do this for every single page.--Dehstil (t|c) 16:13, 4 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Redirects are pretty important in a wiki, in my thinking. If someone is looking for a page, and it's obvious what page they're looking for (i.e. capitalization difference), why make them search for it instead of merely bringing them to the correct page? On another note, omitting redirects uses up wiki resources: people will load an empty page, and then go to the correct page (two pageloads), or else they'll remember in advance not to do that, and instead load the wiki main page, then search for it (two pageloads), instead of going directly to the correct location with a redirect (one pageload). I certainly don't mind making a redirect when I can remember, because I'll usually look for the same page more than once. --SF 16:48, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

Quest Names

Should all the quests be renamed by their quest log names? i.e. The Goblin Who Wouldn't Be King for the knob gobling king quest. Just putting that out there.--Llamaman 21:08, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

Ohayou Food Stat / Diet Optimization

As I recall, this tool could organize data by adventures, substat, etc, adventures per fullness/drunkeness, and calculate an optimun diet based on various preferences; it was extremely useful. Alas, it has been down for some time. The most on the wiki so far is food by fullness and general stat gain ranges. Perhaps we could revive it somewhat, somehow? --Dehstil 22:56, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

  • I don't know the original page you're talking about, and I think it could become quite large considering all possibilities for different classes/skills/paths/etc. But aside from that I think a 'Food (by avg adventures/fullness)' category would be quite useful, and maybe less a 'Food (by avg statgains/fullness)', and equivalents for booze, ofcourse. --Nappa 07:54, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
    • You mean like Best Foods and Best Drinks? Phlip 08:01, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Ah, good to see something like that's already in place. Getting there is another problem though. I'll fix a link on the food page. Thanks! --Nappa 08:36, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

Item Numbers

Sorry, didn't really know where to ask about this, but might it be possible for the item pages to display the item numbers somewhere on them, like under the item name? As it is now, if you have an item and want the item number, you have to go searching through the list of item numbers, instead of just seeing it on the item page when looking up said item.--Macman104 06:26, 30 April 2006 (CDT)

  • Yeah, we'll do that and possibly the item desc number and along with numbers for skills, effects, etc. ...or at least put it on the todo list.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

Uhmm... Typo?

In the featured article about The Huge Cannon, shouldn't the very first word, originaly, be spelled like originally? I failed to find an "edit" link, so... I thought I'd post it here. Sorry if this is actually too small news to be put here...--acdr 16:16, 17 May 2006 (CDT)

Random Number Generator

  • It would be really cool if there was an extension that generated random numbers depending on the range that you put in. (something like <ran>1|5</ran>. That would generate a random integer between 1 and 5, including 1 and 5.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 22:41, 17 May 2006 (CDT)
    • You can try my RNG here: [1] --Guissmo 08:03, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Thanks, but this has already been created. I actually wanted a wiki extension that generated random things, and one was created. (<RandomlySelect>)--SomeStranger (T | C) 08:34, 1 June 2006 (CDT)
  • It'd be nice if we had the random number generator hooked in similarly to the parserfunctions because it's current usage is limited.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)


There seem to be a lot of projects here. Perhaps we ought to make a page that lists them all. --Ihmhi 23:30, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

  • I agree we should set up a current projects system.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

Problems with the New Skin (Add to the list)

This has all been moved to a seperate page for better organization. Head over to Discussion/Things that are broken.


Hey, I don't want to make an enormous stink or overstep some boundary, but seriously, have the authors of the new skin seen what this looks like in Firefox? I think that's what's causing most of the conflict.

  • I am using firefox....it looks fine.--SomeStranger (T | C) 18:27, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
  • A hard refresh (ctrl+F5) should fix any issues. But yeah, it looks like crap if part of the old skin is cached. --Ricket 18:29, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Awesome. Thanks Ricket, that helped a lot.--Spine 16:08, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

Reasons Why This Sucks

. The area containing all of the information is much smaller than before, which is stupid . The links to pages are oversized compared to everything else . The border takes up about a quarter of the screen, wasting space . Its fecking slow . Things like the items by number pages now look stupid because there are now like, 500 linebreaks that weren't there before. . Bah - Firestorm ZERO 31st May.....

  • He has a point about the borders. Between the column on the left and the new column on the right, the main body of the page only has about two thirds of the screen to work with. My resolution isn't great (1024x768), but this is pretty bad. --echan

I liked it the way it was. Especially the safe adventuring section. Earlier today it took 6 lines for the The Spooky Gravy Barrow Except for Felonia, Queen of the Spooky Gravy Fairies. And its better if all the ads are shoved to the top, or bottom, or even better...gone. But Anywhere but the sides are fine.--Flamethrower10

Totally agree. --Yupsi

The color schemes are todally rediculous. It is not readable at all with black on red. You need to shrink the space for the ads and increase the size of the content. We can still see and read the ads without the ENORMOUS MARGINS. If you are doing skins? Ho about letting users change the atrocious color scheme. It seems like whoever is hosting this is running an amateur hour, when it comes to design. And all of the things on the left side of the screen are totally useless. The entire left pain should be hidable excepr for search. --smacfarl

  • Calm down =) It was a joke. Did you notice the day? 6/6/06. It will be changed back tomorrow...--SomeStranger (T | C) 11:34, 6 June 2006 (CDT)
    • I think it's clever and creative. Kudos to whoever worked on it. --LucySpace 12:26, 6 June 2006 (CDT)

tiny plastic sword

I'm not sure whether other users have this too, but the TPS page has this huge black bar running through the middle all the way down... It'd be nice if you'd be able to fix it.

This also occurs on the main page of the Classes/Skills link.

  • You guys need to learn how to SIGN YOUR POSTS. Plus what browser are you using and can you post a link to a screenshot? Do not upload screenshots to the wiki, use imageshack or something. --JRSiebz (|§|) 15:14, 1 June 2006 (CDT)


Is it necessary to attempt to make already-existing pages conform with one another? For example, a search for the word "Douglas" reveals several different types of styles. They are functional (for the most part) but differ slightly. Some have links to outside references and some do not. Some of those that have links use single brackets and a space between the website and the link name; others use the double brackets with piping. Should these remain because wiki's scope is so large that editing them would be just nitpicky? Or should we attempt to make each page conform?
In addition, although I've found the wiki's Established Standards to be helpful with writing in the house style, I still remain uncertain on whether pages with references written in a "casual" tone of voice should be edited to sound more professional or if the casual voice is meant to be friendly and should remain unedited. In addition, even if a professional tone is preferred, is there simply too much information to really pay much attention to editing casual reference material or should editors change them as they come across them? --LucySpace 05:33, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

  • If the link is to an internal page (within this wiki), you should use the "double brackets and pipe" syntax, and merely specify the name of the page (i.e., not the whole "http://" stuff. If the link is to an external page (outside this wiki), you have to use the "single brackets and space" syntax and specify the full URL. (External links show a little symbol just after the link.) The major exception is if you're linking to a Wikipedia article -- instead of using the external syntax, you can (and should, because it's cleaner) specify it with the internal syntax by putting "wikipedia:" at the beginning of the page name.
    For example, you could specify a link as either:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cake_(band) Cake] or
[[wikipedia:Cake (band)|Cake]]
For myself, when I find Wikipedia links that use the external syntax I convert them to the internal syntax. I don't know if others bother to do that, though.
Regarding tone, I don't mind having a casual tone here in the wiki, as long as the information is clear and it's reasonably grammatical. The game itself has a pretty casual tone, after all, and we're not trying to compete with real encyclopedias the way Wikipedia is. -- Old Ned 06:16, 3 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Okay, that clears up some confusion for me. Thank you. Sorry I wasn't more clear about this point: most of the links I was looking at in that brief search were wikipedia links and used either format. Either format is completely acceptable then. Cool, okay. Your attitude towards the tone makes perfect sense. Thanks for the response, Old Ned. :) --LucySpace 07:25, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

Item hacked out of database by (user)

I noticed that some items which were acquired through various hacks are attributed to the first hacker, while others are not. Recently MaxDemian added himself as the originator of two items, but his edits were reversed and the comment was "if someone feels the need to see who found it first, they can dig through the history". After he removed other hacker's names from other non-history pages (in the way his name was removed), he was banned for vandalism and his changes reverted. There's probaly more to this story, but for consistency, I feel we need a ruling on this. Either all people who have hacked items prematurely should get credit or none should. --Pastamancer5 00:15, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

  • There is more to the story - he's gotten into several edit wars in the past regarding Deciphering the Door Code, where he insisted that his solver was the original and deserved to be marked as such and placed at the top of the list instead of sorted alphabetically (and, on one occasion, actually removed the other two door code solvers from the list entirely) and was 3-day banned twice because of it. Apparently, he does not respect the administration here and did not learn his lesson the past two times. --Quietust 00:31, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
  • I figured there was more to the banning, but what about the listing of items that are hacked out by people? I'm not trying to say he shouldn't have been banned, or that he has not acted like an asshat in the past, I'm asking why the changes were reverted. Door Code page aside, Did he not hack the jewelrymaking pliers and ring setting out of the db? --Pastamancer5 00:37, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Exactly. It's not as much a matter of whether or not that line exists in a file, as it is a matter of how MaxDemian conducts himself in these matters. I think it'd be safe to say that EVERY edit of his to the wiki has been a vanity edit. He has made numerous attempts to add his name to many pages with no other contribution. And, when confronted about it has always pointed fingers elsewhere and generally been an ass. In contrast, while BoozerBear and HotStuff and other big player names are on pages, they have rarely (if ever) been the one to put their name on the page. If Jick came through here and insisted on adding his name to every page as a "Note: created originally by Jick", and then bitched and had edit wars when we removed the unnecessary line, he'd be banned too. Next time Max comes through with his vanity edits (in no less than two weeks), he'll get even more time away, until we work up to permanent. I don't know when we'll hit permanent. It mostly depends on how much of an ass he is with his next round, which I can only expect to be worse.... Hold on to your hats.

      Damn edit conflicts! Gimme a chance to type before you ask again!--jin 00:43, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Technically, he did not hack the jewelry-making pliers or the ring setting out of the database - he simply tinkered with a form URL to access Little Canadia Jewelers before Ascension had rolled out and bought them with his own Meat. --Quietust 00:45, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
      • "Technically, he did not hack the jewelry-making pliers or the ring setting out of the database - he simply tinkered with a form URL to access Little Canadia Jewelers before Ascension had rolled out and bought them with his own Meat."... In that case, no hack in the entire history of KoL was a hack as every single hack ever was based on malformed URLs in one way or another. And before you ignorantly say "waa, waa, waa, you just when to the existing npc store url before it was public." That is completely wrong as you could not even view the shop if you tried that (much like if you try it while on the wrong path). Another note, MaxDemian sent jick the line of code Jick used to fixed the exploit. (This unsigned comment was added by BSCaller, an obvious MaxDemian sock puppet.)
  • I had noticed that MaxDemian removed BoozerBear's and HotStuff's names from a couple of items, with the same exact comment that Ricket had used when removing MaxDemian's name from an item: "There's no good reason for it to contain {person's} name. If someone feels the need to see who found it first, they can dig through the history." I let his changes stand because, well, we DO need to be consistent. Admittedly, BoozerBear and HotStuff were not the people who put their names on those item pages in the first place. I think we get irritated when MaxDemian puts his own name in, because not only does it seem like self-promotion but his phrasing is sometimes pretty braggy (although I thought the tone was okay on his changes to the Jewelry-making pliers and ring setting today).
    Much as I dislike his attitude and the way he's been acting about all this, I would be okay with having him listed as the discoverer of those items he actually did discover, as long as the tone is as neutral as when more popular players like BoozerBear or HotStuff are mentioned. -- Old Ned 00:51, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Okay, while I can certainly understand the satisfaction it gives to redirect MaxDemian's user page to Flaming Troll, I don't think descending to his level of insult sets a good example on the part of the mods. For one thing, it gives other users an excuse to make unfriendly edits to other people's user pages, as Max's sock puppet BSCaller just did to Quietust. -- Old Ned 01:41, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
  • So, I was thinking, we should probably decide if either all people who have hacked items prematurely should get credit or none should. --Pastamancer5 16:48, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
  • How about we only say so if all existing instances of the item have been hacked. For common items that were once hacked before release, it's not as pertinent to know who got one first, especially if I say...hacked a seal-clubbing club one time (i sorta did).--Dehstil (T | C) 18:23, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
    • The way I see it, the t-shirt and the steaming evil only exist in the game due to HotStuff and Boozer. They are (as far as I know) the only source for those items. Now, if the items get fully implemented, those notes shouldn't really be in there. As I see it, those notes aren't about vanity, but rather, the "drop location" for those items. They deserve a place there. Vanity comments from Max don't. --Ricket 20:04, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
      • That sounds fair, Ricket. Are those the only two items that were never available except by hacking? -- Old Ned 01:56, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
        • There are certainly other items that only exist as a result of hacking, though most I can think of at the moment were hacked many times by many different people. --Ricket 00:27, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
  • I was looking at some stuff at Wikipedia, and apparently there is a way to "semi-protect" pages so that they cannot be edited by unregistered users or from accounts less than 96 hours old, to keep people from creating sock-puppet accounts after they've been banned. I was thinking that if we decide to remove MaxDemian's name from all the pages it's on, we should then semi-protect all the changed pages so that he can't edit them from sock-puppets if he gets banned again. Which he probably will be, as soon as he sees his name's not on any articles and starts adding it again... Although if we have removed everyone else's names, too, except for the two items noted by Ricket above, he MAY feel that's fair enough. -- Old Ned 23:17, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
    • We need a final decision on this, preferably before Max's ban expires, which should be pretty soon now. It sounds to me like the consensus is to remove all names from items, except those few items that were never available except through hacking. Does that sound acceptable to the majority? -- Old Ned 22:54, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
      • Yes, all but unimplemented hacked items.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:56, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Templates - "Parserfunctions" - huh?

Okay, I saw some discussion over on Proposed Standards about changing templates to use "parserfunctions", but I haven't seen anything yet that says what parserfunctions ARE, or what benefits we'd gain by changing to them, or how to use them, or anything like that. And I see the Food and Booze templates have been modified to use them, but apparently we have to change the arguments we pass in, but there's nothing on the templates or in their (nonexistent) discussion pages that says how or what arguments should be passed in instead...

Can we just slow down a moment and start explaining some of this stuff, instead of one or two people just doing it and the rest of us wondering wtf's going on?? -- Old Ned 22:49, 20 June 2006 (CDT)

The parameters that have to be passed to Booze and Food have not changed. I was going to try to simplify them and get rid of that ugly 1 and 2 nonsense at the beginning, but I forgot about a few things that make it more complicated (namely that if you say it gains 4-6 adventures, it would treat that as 4 minus 6 and say you lose 2). How they work internally has changed a bit, but how you use the template has stayed exactly the same. Anyways, the advantage is that with the old {{if}}, for example, doing something like {{if|{{ifeq|{{{1}}}|1}}|a|b}} required 4 database hits (to load {{if}}, {{P1}}, {{ifeq}} and {{ifeq/eq2}}) and assorted CPU time to parse all their wikiness. The ParserFunctions' {{#ifeq:{{{1}}}|1|a|b}} behaves exactly the same, and only requires one brief function call in PHP. Less CPU and less database hits means less lag, especially when multiplied by the number of pages that use the aformentioned Food and Booze templates (and similar other templates). Plus there are handy features like #expr which let you do things you couldn't do before - see Moons for a complicated example, or the automatic moon thing on the Main Page (which used to require a custom extension). MetaWikipedia:ParserFunctions has more details on exactly what they can do. Phlip 00:55, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

Minor Edit to Main Page

This is a very minor editing quibble, but in my browsers the "quick link" at the top that leads to the Naughty Sorceress wraps in the middle, splitting "Naughty" and "Sorceress" between two lines. It just plain looks wrong. Can this be adjusted, please? And thanks. Sola, 19:15, 21 June 2006 (EDT)

  • We use to force the quicklinks to break a certain way into 2 lines (with a break), but on low resolutions, it sometimes would still not fit and wrapped the first line into 2 lines, creating a long line, a really short line, and then the original 2nd line. If we break it into 3, it looks funny on those who use a higher resolution, with those lines all bunched together in the middle. So we decided just to leave it as one line and let each person's browser wrap it as it see's fit. And yes it may break up a link onto two different lines if it has a space in it. I might try fiddling with it again. ;-) --JRSiebz (|§|) 20:56, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
    • I think it wraps better now, it shouldn't split up the two word links now that they are enclosed in <span style="white-space: nowrap;">XXX</span>s. --JRSiebz (|§|) 21:05, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
      • [[Naughty Sorceress Quest|Naughty&nbsp;Sorceress]] would have been easier... Phlip 21:24, 22 June 2006 (CDT)

Altar of Literacy

It would be nice if the wiki had some sort of literacy test in it (akin to The Altar of Literacy) to reduce the number of users who register and immediately add incorrectly formatted, misspelled, grammatically incorrect, and/or entirely irrelevant references to various pages. I don't know how hard it would be to implement, though, but even a "I have read the Established Standards, and I promise to abide by them." prompt in the user registration would likely be sufficient for most cases (and would probably be fairly easy to do). --Quietust 12:37, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Oh come on, Quietust, we all know you secretly love going in and fixing the mistakes.  ;) --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrbs) 12:13, 30 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Yeah, users find the established standards pages too long and cumbersome sometimes. I thinking we at least promote some sort of quick start page and maybe a short list of don'ts and make it easily noticeable somewhere.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

Needs Content: References

Some recently-edited pages now have {{NeedsContent}} on them with the comment, "This page is in need of content. Need References" and then a subsection for References with nothing but a question mark under it. Not all of the pages need a reference. I tend to feel that if someone thinks of a reference for a page, they can add it, but if we don't see any that need adding off the top of our heads, we don't need a "needs content" or a subsection for references that may or may not exist. --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrbs) 12:13, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

  • I agree not all items necessarily need to have references, especially if they end up bad ones.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:35, 30 June 2006 (CDT)

A Temporal Rift?

Something is seriously wrong with this wiki - on at least 3 separate occasions today, series of edits have taken place with timestamps up to 15 minutes into the future, only to have subsequent edits appear to happen before them. Notable examples are the jewel-eyed wizard hat, Template:Plural, and my recent updates of items 900-999 where the update to Proposed Standards appeared to happen before I finished converting the last 15 items in the set. And just now, it's happening again with this very article. What exactly is going on here? --Quietust 00:11, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

  • That happened to me too last night. I suspect it has something to do with the recent mystery optimization on coldfront.--Dehstil (t|c) 16:06, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Minor issue

This is probably the wrong place for this, and also really trivial. However, I noticed on the campground page in the image of all the things available for your campsite, it shows the meat maid picture, but underneath when it has the clickable list of things in the above image (with descriptions) nothing is mentioned about the meat maid there. Im sure I probably could have put something in there myself, as I know a bit about wiki's.. I figured I'd take the cheap way out :) rather than possibly botch something. --Spindizy 0:56, 2 July 2006 (CDT)

A maid to clean up your campsite giving you more adventures: either a Meat maid (4) or clockwork maid (8)
It's been there from when the list was added to the page... Phlip 05:15, 2 July 2006 (CDT)

/me slinks back into the corner wearing an idiot hat. Doh. --Spindizy 0:56, 2 July 2006 (CDT)

Reminders for editing adv/stat gains

See MediaWiki talk:Copyrightwarning2 --Quietust 13:32, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

  • I've updated both of them, but it would appear that one of the "speed updates" was to disable the MediaWiki namespace and copy all of the messages into a static file on the server, making it impossible for anybody to update them. An actual Administrator is going to have to update these. --Quietust 22:04, 4 July 2006 (CDT)
    • They seem to have updated now. It'd be nice to know why they didn't update automatically before. --Quietust 00:35, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
      • ...unfortunately, they were updated with what was visible at that moment, so the moon-dependent stat day warnings are not present. --Quietust 08:53, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Custom Interwiki Links

  • Since Radio KoL's site is now a wiki, it might be nice for pages there (like dj pages, etc.) to be linked to using the interwiki syntax. For example, using [[RadioWiki:AboutDJ|Chronological List of DJs]] instead of [http://www.radio-kol.net/wiki/index.php/AboutDJ Chronological List of DJs]. --JRSiebz (|§|) 20:52, 12 July 2006 (CDT)
Though someone with db access would need to add an entry to the table named interwiki. Specifically:
 RadioWiki   http://www.radio-kol.net/wiki/index.php/$1   0   0


Are we adding IDs to everything? If so, do these count as "IDs" for NPC stores?

1 -> The Shadowy Store
2 -> Gouda's Grimoire and Grocery
3 -> The Smacketeria
b -> The Bugbear Bakery
galaktik.php -> Doc Galaktik's Medicine Show
h -> The Hippy Produce Stand
m -> The Market Demon (there were different versions for valentines and such)
s -> The Meatsmith's Shop
town_giftshop.php -> The Gift Shop
j -> Little Canadia Jewelers
4 -> Bakery
5 -> General Store
g -> Laboratory
z -> The Armory and Leggery
w -> White Citadel

--Dehstil (t|c) 14:01, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

I was going to eventually go through and do everything that had a "By Number" page... skills, effects, items, outfits, familiars, areas, trophies... I didn't think of the NPC stores, I guess they'd count too... Phlip 14:46, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
Also, try this forum thread for more. Xeno removed them though...
t -> Anti-BountyHunterHunter; buy furs; now blanked
test.php -> Test Page; list of those who attended KOL CON II; now blanked
monkey.php -> The Curious Monkey; now deleted
adventure.php?snarfblat=1 -> ? possibly test area where you recieved seal-clubbing club every time
--Dehstil (t|c) 15:17, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

Strange Leaflet Spoilers Excluded -- WHY?

I posted this to Talk: Strange Leaflet Walkthrough:

Why should this site spoil EVERYTHING in the game except for some magic words in the leaflet quest? I respect not including them on the main quest page, but why not include them somewhere? We tell you how to get every trophy, how to beat the naughty sorceress in explicit detail, how to solve every puzzle in the game. Yet the magic words are somehow off limits? I have yet to see a good explanation for this, and I would like one. What are we just not good enough for these hints, only the elite get them? SilverPalmLEAF 15:41, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

p.s. they are on the web on other sites. Why make this site less complete? Can we at least include a link to one of those other sites? SilverPalmLEAF 15:50, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Quoted from Quietust in the deletion log: "There was an agreement with Jick that these would NOT be spoiled here!" UglyPanda 17:04, 24 July 2006 (CDT)

Even by linking to another site which provides the answer? That's not spoiling them here, it's providing a link to a site that does if people really want the spoilers. In any case, the talk page on the quest needs to reflect this as otherwise it looks like arbitrary elitism, as opposed to an arbitrary agreement with Jick. SilverPalmLEAF 17:25, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Yeah, including a link would be the same thing was spoiling it here, so no. As you said, they're not that hard to find, so it's not a big deal, but at least we could try not spoiling here (or doing anything that would be analogous to that). Linking to it is a difficult shade of gray and would seem unprofessional if the point was we weren't spoiling it in the first place.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:26, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
  • This debate seems to crop up every few weeks. Can we add a strong affirmative statement to the page along the lines of "By request of the creators of KoL, and universal consensus of the maintainers and primary contributors to this wiki, the secret words are not spoiled on this site. You CAN figure them out by doing some homework (or you can find them spoiled elsewhere) but you won't find them here."
  • I honestly have no idea why they are not spoiled, nor do I care. It takes all of 30 seconds to figure them out if you really want to. I mean seriously. There is even a link in the tools section to various greasemonkey scripts, one of which spoils the entire leaflet, code included! The bottom line is this. It has been discussed, and the decision to note post them has been made. End of story. Jinya locked the page from editing, so I figured I should remove the words from the edit history as well. And I did. If you have a complaint take it up with Jinya, she will probably tell you to suck it up or go complain to someone else. There is no possible way to make it any clearer. The codes will not be spoiled.--SomeStranger (t|c) 12:56, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

Category:Combines is probably Legacy

  • I just (re) noticed that Category:Combines exists. One might ask why? There are no categories for other types of recipes, ex no (Coktail)Crafts, Cooks, or Smiths category. But pages such as Cocktailcrafting, Cooking, and Meatsmithing instead. Shouldn't Category:Combines be dussolved and Combining be created (looking like Meatsmithing)? Or I am just missing something and/or speaking odd jibberish which means nothing to anyone but myself? --JRSiebz (|§|) 00:24, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
  • Yeah, that makes sense; let's dissolve Category:Combines.--Dehstil (t|c) 13:55, 25 July 2006 (CDT)
  • The only problem is I can't think of any content for "Combining" other than one long list of items that can be combined along with mention of meat paste and untinkering, which is already accomplished by "Category:Combines".--Dehstil (t|c) 14:03, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

On a side note, what's with Category:Potions? It seems that these are just usable items that have the word potion in their name or look like vial. Shouldn't there just be pages for the D&D potions, reagent potions, etc. not categories, and all these things just be in 'usable items' as what their type says they are? --JRSiebz (|§|) 16:14, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Also 'Pixelated Items' and 'Star Items' seem to be just like combines category, a recipe type, everything is already listed on the the locations you can make these, 'Toys' is forced like potions and is kind of like combines same with Toymaking Components and Toy Parts, all alternate types of recipes. I dunno why toys get three categories. Along that line of thinking, we'd have a bunch more categories, ick!--JRSiebz (|§|) 16:32, 25 July 2006 (CDT)

Collection Updates

How long does it take the wiki to update the Collection section for each item? I ask because the Bowl of lucky charms collection is out of date and disagrees with the epeterso2 database. I had assumed the database was queried in real time by the wiki, for some reason

NoodleHannah 11:37, 26 July 2006 (CDT)

  • I expect it is once a day or so. --Club 18:32, 27 July 2006 (CDT)


So I filled in some links to movies mentioned on The Unkindest Cut and got met with a CAPTCHA. Well, I filled it in, and got another one. Repeat, repeat. At first I thought it was a bug presenting me with a CAPTCHA for each URL I had entered. But then I exceeded the URL count and it kept going. Turns out, that although the letters in the CAPTCHA are all capitals, and although every other CAPTCHA I've tried has been case insensitive OR have wanted me to match the case, this wiki wants me to enter lower case letters where I see capitals. THIS IS BOGUS, BROKEN and/or BORKED. -- Club 18:32, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Seems fine to me. It functions as a captcha and an intelligence test, which you clearly passed. I mean, do you really want to let just anyone edit the wiki? I'm only kidding. I agree it's bogus. --Crowther 21:08, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Categorization in Fight/Adventure templates

I'm busily going through the adventures in accordance with a Large issue at Needs Work, and I thought that for future reference, if anything like this were to happen again, it would be so much easier to have the Adventures category in the template itself, rather than at the bottom of every page. --Alpaca (T/C) 15:45, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

  • I actually suggested this very thing over here, but it was rejected due to numerous users placing said standardization templates within their own user pages (not to mention the resulting miscategorization of the Established Standards pages). I'm trying to get this re-evaluated at least for usage in Template:Item with smith/cook/cocktail/jewelry ingredients, though it would be nice to have it for other templates as well. --Quietust 16:00, 1 August 2006 (CDT)
    • A valid argument, sure, but still - 800 or so adventure pages vs. what, 20 user pages, perhaps? --Alpaca (T/C) 16:11, 1 August 2006 (CDT)

*Bump* I'm eager to press ahead with changing the Adventure pages, but it would help to know if I can go about it this way or not. --Alpaca (T/C) 17:17, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

  • I'm all for using categories in templates. For talk pages, there's other problems with using templates anyways. Substitute the constituent code instead using methods such as subst: and copying and pasting for talk pages and other places you don't want to have categorized.--Dehstil (t|c) 20:30, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

I went ahead and did it. --Alpaca (T/C) 21:37, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

  • That was a bad idea. Now all pages which use the template and forced into Category:Adventures via the "includeonly". The established standards, and some other (maybe even a few user) pages are now "Adventures". Anywhere this is used is forced an "Adventure". We discussed elsewhere about templates having an "autocat=yes" variable in them, the default being not auto-categorizing a page. Sure you can use subst: on talk pages and in other places, but that still will bring over the category. Copy and pasting out of the template is bad, because then everytime the template is updated, every page which a copy n paste of it needs to be changed, and that defeats the whole reason of having.using a tempalte to begin with. Please see diiscussion at Proposed_Standards#Categorization_via_Templates. Also, adventures which start with "A" or "The" will no longer have their "categorical sorting" overridden properly, such as "Name, The".--JRSiebz (|§|) 21:48, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Item Numbers

How does one find the item number of an item? If I say, see it in someone's store, is there a URL or something to inspect? --DirkDiggler 04:09, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Take a look at Items_by_number. It may not be the best description yet (it's still pretty new), but it is a description. Teffania 08:07, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Right -- I mean, once I see the shiny new object in some brilliant person's store, how do I determine the unique item number so that I may add it to the Items_by_number page?--DirkDiggler 09:01, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

  • From the Items by number page:
Items in NPC stores (but not the mall), the radio button selects them (view frame source for the shop page) consists of "<input type=radio name=whichitem value=XXX>", where XXX is the item number.

--Alpaca (T/C) 09:44, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Drop Location(s)

This is kinda minor, but a number of pages say "Drop Location" and others "Drop Locations". We've always kept "References" plural no matter how many were listed. It's too hard to change the "s" back and forth as we add and remove items to a section anyways, so I say they should all be "Drop Locations". Does anyone disagree?--Dehstil (t|c) 22:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

  • Yeah they prob should all be plural. Get right on that, eh? I swear there's no more than 1 or 2 *COUthousandGH* of them. ;-) --JRSiebz (|§|) 22:29, 2 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Yeah, that could be an obstacle. Hmm, oh well..we could bot stuff if we get to it. Replace all instances of ==Drop Location== with ==Drop Locations== (and ==Recipe== with ==[[Recipe]]==, maybe).--Dehstil (t|c) 22:45, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

Discussion moved from my talk page

According to standards, The drop location header should read "Drop Location" if there is only one drop location, but should read "Drop Locations" if there is more than one. Please revert the incorrect Drop Locations edits. Your energy is appreciated, but in this case enthusiasm outpaced assiduity. Thanks! --Gymnosophist 21:28, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

  • The other solution, of course, is to change the Established Standards. It's not like they're written in stone - hell, I've rewritten a few of 'em myself. --Quietust 22:41, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Here, I feel fairly strongly that we should use Drop Location for one drop location and Drop Locations for multiple locations. To minimize user confusion, data should conform to data descriptions. --Gymnosophist 22:51, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
      • The only problem is that this is inconsistent with Uses, Notes, and References, which are always to be plural. --Quietust 22:53, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Agreed, but on the other hand, "Use," "Note," and "Reference" all have a distinctly bad ring to them, while "Drop Location" doesn't. --Alpaca (T/C) 14:20, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Cool, we'll do "Drop Locations" then. P.S. I think the reason they have rings to them is because you've seen them so often.--Dehstil (t|c) 23:33, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
  • I'm still all for "Drop Locations". I've been changing reference to references and use to uses as stated in standards. Sometimes there's only one thing listed, but other times it's because something was added to the list and nobody bothered to pluralize the header, so now I change them regardless of the number of things listed...unless people are totally against that.--Dehstil (t|c) 13:48, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
    • I lost track of this discussion, in part because of the premature archiving. Dehstil, I think that what Alpaca was saying was that, yes, he agrees that Drop Location is not consistent with Uses, etc., but that, nevertheless, Drop Location is preferred because it sounds better. I agree, Drop Location is euphonous and should be used when there is only one drop location. And by the same token, Notes, Uses, and References should always be used irrespective of the actual number of notes, uses, and references. This is in accordance with the current standards. --Gymnosophist 17:05, 29 August 2006 (CDT)


Check out Special:Version. How long has that been in there?--Dehstil (t|c) 16:49, 3 August 2006 (CDT)

  • Yay, up and runnning. Looks like <ref></ref><references/> are for the cite extension which we don't have or need. I'm not sure what IPA and Polytonic are, but the templates on en.wikipedia simply have {{{1}}} as content.--Dehstil (t|c) 15:12, 5 August 2006 (CDT)
    • IPA and Polytonic are hacks around an IE bug... in IE, the default font doesn't have all the fancy symbols needed to render IPA, so there's stuff in the CSS that forces it to be a font that does (but only in IE... in Fx, etc, it just uses the default font, which usually does have all the necessary symbols). Unless we're going to start giving pronounciations of terms, or using polytonic Greek, I don't think they're necessary here. Phlip 16:33, 5 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Ah, I didn't look hard enough; that's <span class="IPA">{{{1}}}</span> people. I agree, we probably won't use those or create those templates.--Dehstil (t|c) 16:44, 5 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Okay, they should be all gone now.--SomeStranger (t|c) 03:54, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Well, might as well remove the IPA section completely; this is what it looks like in IE.--Dehstil (t|c) 16:20, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

Possibly-dumb mechanics questions

I've poked around in here for about two weeks now and I haven't run across the answers to a couple of general questions:

  • If you gain access to a zodiac sign special area, do you get to keep it after your next ascension?
  • The phrase "ascended under a Muscle sign" is confusing--does that mean your *last* run was Muscle or your *current* run is Muscle?
  • If an adventure requires elemental resistance, but is not itself a combat adventure (such as in The Daily Dungeon), does any amount of elemental resistance suffice? I.e., do the different levels of resistance have any effect outside of combat?

Thanks for any pointers. --Jonrock 17:29, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

  • No.
  • Current.
  • Yes.

Now that you know it would be beneficial for other users if you were to add the information to pages which you think should have it.--SomeStranger (t|c) 18:02, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

OK! --Jonrock 20:25, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

Drink Matrix

I made three different versions of the Drink Matrix in the sandbox: 1 2 3. I've been staring at it so long I can't decide which one looks best. Obviously I'd like it if all three possible icons (Rocks.gif or Martini.gif | Discomask.gif or Plasword.gif | Discoball.gif) could fit across a single cell, but I can't seem to get that to happen. Also, it would be great if the Mask/Sword/Ball icons went to the recipe pages for their skill-based results, but the click template screws up the alignment within the table cell. Anybody have any preferences or advice? --Jonrock 19:29, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

Take a look at my personal sandbox to see how I messed around with {{click}} and images in tables. Dunno if it'll help. --Alpaca (T/C) 12:23, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
It is done. Thanks for the examples. --Jonrock 16:54, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

Recipe Icons

One thing that's bugged me for a while is the fact that the Cocktailcrafting icon is a martini glass and the Cooking icon is a chef's hat, even though a fair number of the other crafting icons (Meatsmithing, Jewelrymaking, Combining, Star Chart, Pixel Combining, and probably a few others) use the icon of the item which is used to perform the crafting. Any reason for Cocktailcrafting not using the image of the cocktailcrafting kit and Cooking not using the image of the E-Z Cook Oven™? (and perhaps making Supertinkering use the Flange icon, since the spring/cog/sprocket can also be used with meat paste) --Quietust 13:51, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

Gnorman's icon is the sprocket, so that's open for debate, although I like the flange idea. The other two seem like no-brainers to me. --Jonrock 14:00, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
Sounds good, that's three votes for that.--Dehstil (t|c) 23:26, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Make it four. I like the flange as well. The reason for the inconsistancy is that early on there were only a few recipe types. The hat and glass just seemed like the most logical icons. --Gymnosophist 23:40, 14 August 2006 (CDT)

Skill template

There's a dangling "</div>" in the template, which is showing up as text wherever it's used. I'd fix it myself, except that I don't *really* grok the template language so I'm afraid I'd botch the handling of "usemsg" (and besides, I can't find an example of where "usemsg" is used). --Jonrock 11:51, 16 August 2006 (CDT)

  • I introduced a new parameter because a lot of the skills were missing their in-game messages and all of them (except of type, passive) have messages. Dangling div is fixed :)--Dehstil (t|c) 15:39, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Like this? Or is that too much? Do you just want the initial "You conjure ..." sentence? Should this discussion be moved to Proposed Standards? --Jonrock
      • Yes, like that. Only actually use {{AcquireEffect}} directly inside the page - don't ever use subst: unless it's on a User or Talk page. --Quietust 17:18, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Heh, I didn't even use "subst:", I typed all that myself. Still so much to learn... You know, the only parameter that {{AcquireEffect}} needs that {{Skill}} doesn't already have is the icon. Could the subtemplate be constructed internally? --Jonrock 17:26, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Yay, action! Like I said to the silence at Template talk:Skill, I think all skill types except passive have in-game messages...I'm guessing we should add "needs content" to all the ones that need one. Usually, I list template-added "needs work" things under a space " "; you'll see the skills that need in-game messages there.--Dehstil (t|c) 18:44, 16 August 2006 (CDT)