User talk:Melon

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Data pages

It's standard to list item drops with lowercase initially, unless the item is capitalised in-game, such as Knob Goblin elite pants or Trollhouse cookies.

Apart from that, the pages are nicely done, however meat drops can't reliably be found anywhere - the combat template disagrees with with the monster page itself which probably disagrees with some outside sources. Also, some meat drops have changed since NS13. I'd recommend taking them from here where you can, unless you know of a better place?

When I created data pages, I took combat initiative from HCO, but now Foggy has created a better system so we may well see more accurate results faster. Currently there are 15 monster initiative values at Talk:Run Away. It may be best for now to just leave this blank, as you have been doing.

I'd like to help with the data page creation if I can - what sources are you using for the information? --Ryo Sangnoir 05:10, 10 May 2008 (CDT)

I'm using information from here and here, which contains the HP, attack and defense stats. I wasn't aware of anywhere for meat drops, so I used the values that were currently on the monster's page, but I'll use that page in future. The only source I could find for initiative was an old one, and it didn't have the new pirates in anyway, so I felt it was best to leave that field blank for now.
I wasn't aware of how the item links were handled. I put them in with upper case because that's what the title pages were like. I'll make sure to double check in future. Thanks.
I was wondering if it was worth adding fields in the data pages for Stats and ML, but I'm not aware if they currently exist, and if they don't, I don't know how to add them in. If anybody knows how, I think it could be useful.
I've decided to put some organisation of this project on my user page for now. It's probably not the best place, but I'll be keeping track of what monsters have been completed on there so if you wish to help you'll know what's left to do.--Melon 05:56, 10 May 2008 (CDT)
ML=Attack. I'm not sure, but I think Stats=Attack/4.
I've also completed the entirety of: Menagerie Level 3, The Haunted Kitchen, Harem, Tower Ruins, Treasury, Orcish Frat House, The Road to the White Citadel and Laboratory. Excluding the ultra-rare infinite meat bug, which I'll do now.
Edit: And the semi-rares.--Ryo Sangnoir 06:13, 10 May 2008 (CDT)
  • Keep in mind that Kittiwake's guide is no longer up to data, except with information that has been added from my guide. Zones such as the orcish frat house, road to white castle and menagerie 3 are not up to date, and adding the information to the wiki from the HCO link is somewhat premature.--QuantumNightmare 20:00, 10 May 2008 (CDT)
    • Hmmm... Do you think it would be better to not start with this project now then? There aren't that many places listed on the AFH forum, so should I assume that they are the most up-to-date for now, and only add to them, and hold off the rest of the project until it is spaded? Or should I not add in the information from that thread yet, just in case? Maybe I'll alter my list of currently completed areas to only include areas with information added from the AFH thread, so that I get a list of "up-to-date" areas. If you think that some information is good to be included, then I'd be very grateful if you could let me know which so I can go ahead and add those. Thanks.--Melon 20:17, 10 May 2008 (CDT)
      • In addition to this, the only place with reliable meat data is AFH - Ragnok's is no longer up to date with NS13, but may well be better than wiki-values, where you can't tell if someone is using meat buffs/packrat. If you are adding data from AFH, please only add the base defence value - the variation can be figured out from there using the formula at the top of the post.--Ryo Sangnoir 03:25, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
        • I wanted to add both values for defense because I felt that the actual defense you experience from the monster would be useful to have without the person needing to manually work it out each time, but I'll leave it out from now on. I can't seem to find a lot of information on meat-drops, and I felt that if I couldn't find any accurate data, I might as well include the drops shown on the wiki page for now. --Melon 06:36, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
          • For the meat drops, that's what I'll be doing as well - just making sure it's known that they'll have to be changed once better data is gathered. That may be something we can bot, though. For the defense - if only the base defense is provided in the data, a field could be added to the infobox or combat template showing the variation in defense with 0ML (calculated from the base defense). This means less has to be written in the data itself and also saves having to update so many pages if the formula changes (with NS15, perhaps :P). In addition, the ceilinging makes the increase in defense with increase in ML uncertain.--Ryo Sangnoir 07:15, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
            • Ah OK, that makes sense. I'll go back and remove the variable defense from the ones I've added it to. If anybody knows how to change the data fields, it would be nice to make ML = attack and stats = atk/4, because pages like The F'c'le and similar area pages still require those to be added in manually, and if it could be done automatically, it saves even more hassle. Also, those area pages aren't picking up the element field from the data page. They need to be added in manually too.--Melon 07:27, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
              • The element field should be picked up automatically - there's probably something wrong with the code. Looking at it, it does pick up the elemental weakness, just not the element itself.--Ryo Sangnoir 07:30, 11 May 2008 (CDT)

As another "Established Standards" bit, it's standard to alpha-sort item drops on both adventure pages and location pages. I think this ignores case. Naturally, this extends to data pages as well. I'll head through and clear up. Sorry for not mentioning sooner.

Edit: In full: Alphasort not ignoring spaces (cream stout before creamsicle), ignoring case (creamsicle before Oil of Parrrlay), with bounty items at the end followed by an asterisk (for smarmy pirate; "bottle of rum, eyepatch, flaregun, Jolly Roger charrrm bracelet, vial of pirate sweat*") --Ryo Sangnoir 07:30, 11 May 2008 (CDT)

  • All the data from the AFH page has been collected in the last month or two, and is up to date. You might want to look into botting information from that page onto the wiki. As well, I added more meat drop data to the 2nd half of the guide and will try and continue doing so. Keep in mind that I wasn't explicitly looking for meat drop data, and so some ranges are given with a question mark. These are monsters who's sample size is not large enough to tell the entire meat drop range, so I just listed the range encountered.--QuantumNightmare 10:05, 11 May 2008 (CDT)

To see what hasn't been done yet, I'm actually using the Monster Compendium - the list was only really to check what data we'd had defense from AFH for, and that's all done now. I'll go stick the list of what hasn't been done on your User page. --Ryo Sangnoir 16:45, 6 July 2008 (CDT)

Getting pages deleted

In case you missed my response before it was summarily deleted, you can use TheKolWiki:Pages for deletion to request that one or more pages be deleted. --Flargen 18:27, 28 May 2008 (CDT)

Monk bug

Actually, it wasn't exactly fixed. I just put in the wrong name (which happens to be the actual title of the item page --Raijinili 13:47, 30 August 2008 (CDT)

  • I see. Thanks for the clarification. Still, it's worth adding the Ancient insane monk back into The Haiku Dungeon page for now. Hopefully they manage to fix it, although it probably doesn't matter too much as most people would search for the item with the letter O rather than Ō. --Melon 13:54, 30 August 2008 (CDT)

Dressing for Success

I've changed the color for "Other non-tradables" from #99FF99 to #BBFFBB to make it a bit easier to distinguish from Clan Dungeon items - they were a bit too similar otherwise. I've also updated its usage on Maximizing Monster Level for now, though it might also be a good idea to examine the colors more carefully to make them less difficult to read (currently, the dark red for ultra-rares/Grimacite and the dark blue for Mr. Store items are really dark). --Quietust (t|c) 15:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

  • OK. I wanted to make it so that similar categories were the same colour but different shades, but it was tough to find a set of colours that went well with blue/red links and were different enough from each other. I guess I'll have another stab at making a nicer colour. --Melon 15:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
  • So this is your project? Please do something about the outfits, like a chart with special outfits compared to mr. store stuff, so we can see which is better, and marginal benefit. Squirming like a toad is pretty much the definition of a rubbish buff, so please don't use it, and the elemental chart needs the rest of the familiar buffs, but not that one. Mar 17:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
    • Well it's not strictly my project, but I'm going ahead and doing the proposed re-write because it wasn't going anywhere. Part of the aim of these pages was to stop grouping people into arbitrary categories (which were never accurate) and help them work out what's best for them given what they have. Outfits probably do need some work in clarifying what's what, but we're still undecided. Go to the Dressing for Success talk page if you want to join in the discussion there. However I agree that maybe some clarification so people can see if, for example, the bounty hunter gear is better than something else would be good, but again, this isn't really the best place to discuss that. Finally, if you're looking at the elemental resistance tables on my page here, EVERY familiar weight buff is already included, so I'm not sure what buffs you're talking about there. (unless you're talking about equipment, in which case read the note just above the tables) --Melon 17:53, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
    • To Mar: Who are you to decide that Squirming Like a Toad is a "rubbish buff"? It boosts familiar weight just like any other familiar weight effect, thus it increases item drops when you're using a fairy. The fact that it's expensive should be evident from the fact that it's highlighted as "Other limited time content" (i.e. stuff which can be traded but no longer drops, meaning it'll only get more and more expensive). --Quietust (t|c) 19:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
      • Also, in general, is it really worth it to list all familiar weight buffs on the Maximizing Item Drops page, as opposed to simply linking to Maximizing Familiar Weight? After all, whatever list we come up with will be 100% duplicated on the page for Maximizing Meat Drops. --Quietust (t|c) 19:41, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
        • Heh, I can see that all this discussion is going to end up here now :p Anyway, there currently isn't a "Maximising Familiar Weight" page, but I actually made a table for it on my user page to help when making the meat and item pages. The other problem with just linking to it is that it might make it a bit harder to determine when it's better to wear +weight over straight +item/whatever as you'd need to keep flipping between pages to work it out. On the other hand, we need to update loads of DfS pages every time a new weight modifier gets released as it is currently. These pages that take familiar weight into account are a bit of a nightmare. --Melon 19:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
          • Familiar weight table = template = problem solved. This sort of stuff belongs better on the project talk so Imma copying it right... now... --BagatelleT/C 02:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
          • One thing that might help significantly on the Meat/Items pages would be to list the familiar bonuses incrementally - that is, list each weight and indicate how much of an increase you get from the next 5 or 10 pounds. A baseline of 20 pounds would probably be a safe assumption in these situations. --Quietust (t|c) 02:12, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Why is there a Template:Dressing for success familiar weight? From what I can tell, no other maximizing pages have this, and this appears to just be a shortcut to adding the effects section. Why? — Cool12309 (talk) 15:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)