TheKolWiki:Proposed Standards/archive

From TheKolWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Archive of previous Proposed Standards, many of which became Established Standards

Item Acquisitions

Currently, when listing an item acquisition, the following templates are in use:
{{acquire|1|item=lime|image=lime.gif|num=}} {{acquire|item=lime}}
yields:

Lime.gifYou acquire an item: lime

and {{acquire|2|item=lime|image=lime.gif|num=4}} {{acquire|item=lime|num=4}}
yields:

Lime.gifYou acquire 4 limes
  • You can't add a new parameter to an existing template without adding it to all the places where that template is used; otherwise it'll show the untranslated argument name as, for example, {{{chance}}} on all the pages that don't supply that argument. (MediaWiki 1.6 will allow "default arguments", but we're still running 1.5.) Your best bet is to rename {{acquireTest}} to something like {{acquireChance}} and request that people use that template instead when they want to display the chance of getting the item. However, I'm not sure how useful this will really be, given that (a) nearly everything in the game only has a chance of dropping, rather than certainty, and (b) we don't know what the chances are in the vast majority of cases... -- Old Ned 20:00, 16 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)
  • I am aware that adding the new parameter would screw everything up, but I was hoping that I could figure out a way to port the "default value" functionality from MediaWiki 1.6 into our current wiki before a stable release of 1.6. I have since given up on this, but I believe that, since things with a chance of dropping tend to arrive individually anyway, use of the existing template (that I just altered) can suffice as follows:
{{acquire|3|item=lime|image=lime.gif|num=30% chance}} {{acquire|item=lime|chance=30%}}
which gives:
Lime.gifYou acquire an item: lime (30% chance)*
As for your second objection, I am currently working on a project to determine the item drop chances for every monster I can get my hands on. So far, I've got good statistics for most of the Castle, the Crimbo Factory and the Airship, but I'd like to have an established method of putting this information into the wiki as I get it, rather than entering it all after the project is complete.--Yiab 14:49, 21 December 2005 (Central Standard Time)

When an item dropping is not certain in a given situation, it may be useful to specify the chance that it will drop, which can be accomplished as follows:
{{acquire|3|item=lime|image=lime.gif|num=30% chance}} {{acquire|item=lime|chance=30%}}
yields:

Lime.gifYou acquire an item: lime (30% chance)*

Oof! Ugh! Ouch!

  • I suppose the next thing on my "list of stupid stuff to do" is making the "Oof! Ugh! Ouch! (etc)" text at the end of successful attacks as well as any element for the attack (whether Hot, Cold, Stench, Spooky, Sleazy, Bad Spelling, or Shadow) into a template to keep them formatted consistently across all combat pages. Optimally, this would be done with 2 wiki extension tags - something like "<hurt>5</hurt> (<element>sleaze</element>)" (which could be done via a template like {{attackhit|2|count=5|element=sleaze}}) could evaluate to something similar to "Ow! Ouch! Ugh! Argh! Oof! (sleaze damage)". Think it'd be worth it? --Quietust 17:05, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
    • Not that I'm volunteering for it or anything, but it'd be nifty if the Oof! Ugh! Ouch! and Splat! Whack! Boof! things were randomly generated.... Are there any pages where we USE the Splat! Whack! Boof! Other than the front page? Anyways, the other might be nifty. --jin 18:03, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
    • I could use my bot to do a ton of these things, but while we are at it would also be cool if we could make the sleaze damage into a colored link. =)--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 18:05, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
    • The elemental damage template has been taken care of; all that remains now is to make an "ouch" generator extension, possibly with 2 modes - one for monster attacks ("Ow! Ouch! Ugh! Argh! Oof! Eek!") and one for KWE hits ("WHACK! GLIPP! OWWW! ZWAPP! ZLOPP! POWIE! CRR-AAACK!", of which there are quite a few - if you're interested, I'll put together a list from the past fight logs). --Quietust 14:59, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
  • Why do they need to be random if it's a wiki?--Dehstil 19:49, 20 May 2006 (CDT)
  • I created an extension which will randomly select a specified number of elements from a list. It could be used for the above {{Ouch}} and maybe a Template:Critial_Hit, and be used in {{Part}}, {{Muscle}}, {{Mysticality}}, {{Moxie}} to replaced the current extensions used in them which require an extension to be manually updated if their "list of elements" ever changes. Using the random selection extension would mean (for example) if a new body part is introduced (or a new term for moxie, or new grunt "Oogh", etc.), it just has to be added to the element list given to the rand select extension called in its template, and no extension needs to be updated. For info see my comments in Template_talk:Ouch. --JRSiebz (|§|) 20:48, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Did you add the extension yet?--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 20:52, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
      • I don't have the means to, If people decide it's a good idea, i'll post on jinya's talk and email it to her. --JRSiebz (|§|) 21:03, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
  • I was just thinking of how nice such an extension would be. That sounds great! —Dentarthurdent(T,C) 15:51, 5 June 2006 (CDT)
  • It already exists. Go to Template talk:Ouch to see how it is implemented.--SomeStranger (T | C) 15:59, 5 June 2006 (CDT)
  • I've started putting these in place, going in the order on the Safe Adventuring page, left column (organized by area, then by level).
    • Seaside Town - done. --Quietust 13:28, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Nearby Plains - done. --Quietust 13:53, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Cobb's Knob - done --Quietust 21:26, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Cobb's Knob Laboratory - done --Quietust 21:26, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Bat Hole - done --Quietust 21:26, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Cyrpt - done --Quietust 15:13, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Distant Woods - done --Quietust 15:42, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Copse of the Deep Fat Friars - done --Quietust 15:48, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Desert Beach - done --Quietust 15:52, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Mysterious Island of Mystery - done --Quietust 15:58, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Big Mountains - done --Quietust 16:03, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Mt. McLargeHuge - done --Quietust 16:10, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Beanstalk - done --Quietust 16:18, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
    • The Lair of the Naughty Sorceress - done --Quietust 16:18, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
  • The only ones remaining are from areas which are no longer accessible. --Quietust 16:18, 27 May 2006 (CDT)

Element Damage Links

  • On many monster pages throughout the wiki the type of damage that their attacks do is not listed after their attack and when it is, it does not link. I propose that these colored markers should link to the respective elemental damage page, using the nifty colored link technique which Quietust so kindly showed me how to use. (*Points to his nicely colored green signature*)--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 10:47, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
    • Testing out a new template {{Element}} to handle these - Hot:(hot damage) Cold:(cold damage) Stench:(stench damage) Spooky:(spooky damage) Sleaze:(sleaze damage) Bad Spelling:(bad spelling damage) Shadow:(shadow damage) --Quietust 20:52, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Something about both <font color="foo"></font> and <span style="color:bar"></span> tags is breaking the {{if}} template I'm using here. --Quietust 21:05, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
      • I just played around with it a little bit and found that the <b>, <s>, <i>, and <u> tags work...this is odd.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 21:13, 7 May 2006 (CDT)
        • I just realized why it's not working - the "=" is throwing it off. There's got to be some sort of way to escape it. --Quietust 23:36, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
          • I think Jinya can strip that from the feed somehow, if she can't then maybe we can use CSS to get around it?--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 23:39, 9 May 2006 (CDT)Nice job getting around it....time to standardize =)--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 23:42, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
          • Do you mean something like using &#61; for =? --JRSiebz (|§|) 23:44, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
            • Quietust got it to work already, suprisingly easy to do actually...mediawiki is so strange sometimes.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 23:46, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
            • Wasn't necessary. MediaWiki has a specific way for handling equals signs in numeric arguments - specify the argument number explicitly (i.e. use {{template|1=a=b|2=b=c}} to get {{{1}}} to be "a=b" and {{{2}}} to be "b=c") --Quietust 23:47, 9 May 2006 (CDT)
              • Interesting idea, SomeStranger, using uppercase element names for usage in item properties (i.e. +1 Stench Damage). When can this be moved over to Established Standards? --Quietust 22:34, 11 May 2006 (CDT)
                • Ok, I moved it over to established standards. Finally case sensitivity is actually useful!--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 15:12, 13 May 2006 (CDT)
                  • Err, no you haven't. Established standards hasn't been modified for the past 3 weeks... --Quietust 22:41, 17 May 2006 (CDT)
                    • Yes I did, someone split up the entire page a few weeks ago, my edits are on the individual pages.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 09:26, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

Spleen template

  • There was an old {{Spleen}} template, but it wasn't very versatile. I've created an extended one named {{Spleen2}} which works similarly to {{Food2}} and {{Booze2}} but also includes an extra option for hiding the adventure gain (since only 2 Spleen items give adventures) and a custom 'effect' field for the unique stuff the various spleen items do. --Quietust 21:24, 18 May 2006 (CDT)
    • All of the spleen item pages (stat boosters, oyster eggs, hatorade, Red Minotaur, and the astronaut ice-cream) have been updated to use this new template. Spiffy. --Quietust 09:51, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

Meat Drop Template

I've created a template for use representing meat drops. Since, for some bizarre reason the "if" template seems to be non-functional, I designed it in a similar style to the item drop templates:

{{meat|1|amount=25-75}} {{meat|amount=25-75}} gives:

Meat.gifYou gain 25-75 Meat.

{{meat|2|amount=25-75|avg=50|stdev=10}} {{meat|amount=25-75|avg=50|stdev=10}} gives:

Meat.gifYou gain 25-75 Meat. (average: 50, stdev: 10)*

{{meat|3|amount=50}} {{meat|type=lose|amount=50}} gives:

Meat.gifYou lose 50 Meat.
      • Updated --Quietust 12:57, 29 August 2006 (CDT)

It's worth noting that, contrary to my expectations, it appears that meat drops follow a normal distribution rather than a constant distribution.
Thoughts?--Yiab 22:30, 19 May 2006 (CDT)

I like it a lot, but others might not really appreciate the standard deviation. Perhaps an explanation for laymen on bell curves and such on the statistics notes page would augment the effectiveness of the new layout for meat drops. When analyzing possible speedruns and the risks presented by the RNG, having these numbers readily available can be helpful.--Dehstil 19:15, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

  • An additional mode for meat losses (from adventures) would be nice, but then the template name "meatdrop" would be a bit confusing - it might've been better to name this {{meat}} instead. Only 32 pages (excluding this one) are using it so far, so it's not too late. --Quietust 12:46, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
    • Yeah...I second the motion for a change....do we have a third? (Then I will change all the templates with StrangerBot)--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 15:10, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
      • Added a 3rd mode for meat loss, shown above. --Quietust 21:22, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
        • And updated every instance I could manage to locate. There might be a few others which the search somehow missed (which wouldn't be the first time), though. --Quietust 20:27, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

HP/MP gain/loss Template

Similar to the meat template above, {{hp}}/{{HP}} and {{mp}}/{{MP}} would be nice to have so we don't need to enter the image every single time and type "Muscularity/Mana/Mojo Points" everywhere. Some consensus on whether they should be HP/MP or hp/mp (or Hp/Mp, which is the same as the latter) would be appreciated. --Quietust 13:04, 24 May 2006 (CDT)

  • In-game (well enchantments anyway), the allcaps version is used, such as "-2 MP to use Skills", 'Maximum HP +30", and "Maximum MP +40". --JRSiebz (|§|) 23:13, 27 May 2006 (CDT)
You put the tiny house down on the ground, crawl inside it, and everything goes dark. You emerge a few seconds later, feeling refreshed.
HPYou gain 20-24 hit points.
MPYou gain 20-24 Mana Points.
Disappointed by your failure, you stomp off in a huff, and stub your toe. Really hard.
HPYou lose 50 hit points.
The Sorceress points at you and a beam of blue light shoots out of her middle finger.
"Thanks for the pick-me-up," she says, as you feel energy drain from your body.
MPYou lose 12-15 Mana Points.


  • There, I think I got all of 'em. --Quietust 20:26, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Featured Article Rotation

  • Dehstil created a nifty template ({{P}}) which I have used to create {{Featuredarticle}}. This does the job currently done by the seven featured article pages. I implemented it on the test main page and it works very well. I think this should be considered as a possible replacement for the current system, as it allows for far more ease when changing the current featured article.--SomeStranger (Talk | Contribs) 19:02, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

Item Usage Templates

Currently, the various item usage templates ({{food2}}, {{booze2}}, {{spleen2}}) do not include the icon of the item being consumed - as a result, all of the various pages either manually include the icon above the template or omit it outright. It would be nice to add an extra parameter to these templates to include the images, just so we don't have to keep going about manually adding the images in. --Quietust 21:23, 7 June 2006 (CDT)

  • The pic "above" the consumption message is always the same as the item image, so to me, It's just wasted space and redundant to include it, since the item description is always just a paragraph above. I mean why do we need the item image more than once on a page? --JRSiebz (|§|) 22:12, 7 June 2006 (CDT)
    • In that case, should we remove the images from the pages which already include them? --Quietust 22:19, 7 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Why SHOULDN'T we have the image more than once on a page? The kingdom puts an image there, which is why some pages have an image there. I'd say PUT images in rather than removing them where they occur in that section.... --jin 22:37, 7 June 2006 (CDT)
  • How about we do whichever one takes less work? ;-) heh. So are there more with or without consumption pics? --JRSiebz (|§|) 23:18, 7 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Looking through the first 100 items with "When Consumed", only a very small number of them included the image. [Nearly?] all of the ones that have the image are boozes. I haven't checked other usable items (whether Spleen, stuff like HP/MP restorers, or miscellaneous stuff), though. At this rate, it'd probably be easier to remove the pics from the ones that have it rather than add pics to the ones that don't. --Quietust 10:18, 12 June 2006 (CDT)
      • And now they are consistent - the images are removed. They're always the same as the item image, anyways. If we REALLY want, we can add them back in when we roll out {{consumable}}. --Quietust 23:12, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Old Food/Booze/Spleen templates

{{Food}}, {{Booze}}, and {{Spleen}} have been completely replaced by {{Food2}}, {{Booze2}}, and {{Spleen2}}, and the former are no longer used. What say we delete the old ones, rename the new ones to drop the 2s, and have a bot fix the existing references? --Quietust 15:51, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Sure, I have always been bothered by the number "2" after the name.--SomeStranger (T | C) 15:59, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

As the one who originally created the Food2 and Booze2 templates and manually edited most of the foods and boozes to use them, this gives me a warm glow. 8-) -- Old Ned 04:49, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

Plurals

I've seen plurals formatted in the Notes section in 3 different ways (and i didn't notice plurals being mentioned in the Established Standards).

  1. The plural of this item is "plural".
  2. The plural of this item is plural.
  3. The plural of this item is plural.

Which one is the mostest correctest? I doubt it's the 3rd one though. --JRSiebz (|§|) 03:18, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

  • I recently saw a standard somewhere in Wikipedia that said words referred to as words (not as quotations) should be in italics, not quotation marks. So they're using your #2 option, and thus I vote for using that here as well. -- Old Ned 05:00, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
  • standards is standards. aesthetically i'm agin double quotes anyway, makes it look like you're doing that thing stupid people do with their hands.. i vote for emphasis. </2c> --Evilkolbot 07:08, 17 June 2006 (CDT)
    • No longer relevant, as the plural is now automatically included when using {{Item}}. --Quietust 23:10, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

Item Pages

Lucyspace2, Dehstil, and I have been playing around with {{Test}} to come up with a means of generating a standardized description block for any item in the game, allowing for (reasonably) speedy changes should Jick decide to massively change the format of them. If the rest of you guys think this template is a good idea (and can agree on a good name for it), I'm willing to organize a mass update of every item page to use the template, possibly even incorporating a massive verification of all item descriptions against the in-game data (just with an extra parameter on the template to make a "Needs Confirmation" box), likely using HolderOfSecrets's display case for easy access to 95.7% of all items. --Quietust 18:34, 17 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Thanks for revamping my code. I had trouble with the If and Ifeq templates; I couldn't figure them out, even though I got them to work in another instance. I'm also happy you modified it to include all types of items instead of my narrower scope involving equipment. I didn't make the connection that equipment and items aren't much different; the only difference is pretty much the "type" parameter. I'm certainly willing to jump on board with a big project like the one you propose. My only worry is that perhaps it's easier for users to add item descriptions by hand and then let more experienced users modify it to conform to standards rather than a template like this, which could seem confusing without a tutorial. On the other hand, people seem to learn quickly and I like the idea of not having to worry about formatting. I noticed the difference between formatting on the Star buckler page and the Gnauga hide buckler page; I'm sure bigger examples exist instead of lame period (full stop) differences, but that's the first one that came to my mind from when I was fiddling with the template. --LucySpace 22:15, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
    • I'm pretty sure that particular issue was due to a transcription error on one of the two pages - after rollover is done (i.e. about 15-20 minutes), I'll check them against the in-game descriptions. --Quietust 22:48, 18 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Short answer - they were both wrong - there is a period (full stop) after the outfit name, but it isn't bold.
    • Yeah, minor things, but existent. The gloomy mushroom page has a period after cannot be discarded.--Dehstil (T | C) 00:02, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
  • The template has been moved to {{Item}} - any objections to mass deployment? --Quietust 09:18, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
    • No objections after 11 (ridiculous and not even funny) hours, so I've begun...
    • When converting pages, start with the following template and substitute in the necessary fields, removing whatever you don't use. When you're done, nuke the original data and make sure it looks correct. If you can verify the item's description in-game (preferably from a central location like HolderOfSecrets's display case) then remove the "verify=1|" part, otherwise leave it behind so somebody else can check it. --Quietust 20:43, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
{{item|
verify=1|
image=|
item=|
desc=|
smith=1|
cook=1|
cocktail=1|
jewelry=1|
type=|
power=|
powertype=|
stat=|
statreq=|
outfit=|
autosell=|
tradeable=0|
quest=1|
gift=1|
enchantment=|
limit=1}}
  • I'm impressed at the speed at which you made those updates, Quietust. Do you have any tips for speedy deployment? Also, I may be able to help soon but the next few days may be somewhat busy for me. --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrbs) 20:46, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
    • My technique is to copy/paste a chunk of item names (at least 30) into a notepad window, then replace each one with the item description data from KoL by searching for them in HolderOfSecrets's display case. Once I have enough of them, I open all of the pages into new tabs in Firefox, click their edit links, then paste the empty template above at the top of the page. Once I have that, I then go through them, one at a time, and copy/paste the new values in. If I run across an item I can't view in-game, I manually copy in the existing data and leave the verify note. I'll probably do a few hundred more tomorrow evening, and finish them over the weekend. --Quietust 22:46, 22 June 2006 (CDT)
    • A request to anybody else participating in updating these pages: follow the example exactly, keeping fields in the same order and putting the vertical bar at the end of the lines rather than the beginning (so it doesn't go and introduce random line breaks). If you're uncertain, look at the first 100 items for actual examples. Keeping all of the pages consistent makes them easier to maintain (i.e. adding new fields), and consistency is the whole point behind using these templates in the first place.
      And just to clarify, I don't have anything against anybody who doesn't follow my pattern to the letter, it's just that I just have a very strong desire to standardize stuff here as much as possible. If you think it's too troublesome to be as strict as me, then by all means let me do it - as odd as it may seem, I enjoy doing this sort of stuff. :) --Quietust 23:00, 23 June 2006 (CDT)


It would be nice to have some standardized place to indicate the plural form of an item. Any objections to placing it immediately below the item stats (right below where the 'cannot equip more than one' notice would appear)? --Quietust

It'd be nice if there was a page like "Items by number (none)" listing now nonexistent items that used to have an item number but now only have a description id. They could be listed in the template as something like -13 as opposed to 13.--Dehstil (t|c) 15:16, 5 July 2006 (CDT)

  • The old item template isn't being used on any item pages anymore, so I think this is "done". I could whip up a script to add the item IDs and descids to the item pages that don't have them yet, from MaxDemian's list, but I think I'll wait for the go-ahead from TPTB before I do so... Plus there's the whole the-sun's-almost-rising-and-I-need-some-sleep thing... Phlip 15:38, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
    • If I count as a power that, er, bees, then go ahead. --Quietust 21:45, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

Consumption Template

Instead of having {{Food|2|2|2|text=You eat the Knoll mushroom. It tastes bad, but it's nutritious.|adv=1-3|mus=gain no|mys=gain no|mox=gain no|full=2}} I was thinking {{Food|text=You eat the Knoll mushroom. It tastes bad, but it's nutritious.|adv=1-3|full=2}} sort of like what we did with the item standardization template syntax. If it's not worth it, then don't bother, but I'm just throwing it out there. I'll set it up to work either way for just the food template for now.--Dehstil (T | C) 00:29, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

  • Check out {{Consumable}}.--Dehstil (T | C) 00:50, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Nice! I want to double check what limiter means.. you put "limiter=2 drunkenness" or "limiter=4 fullness" or "limiter=5 spleen" (etc)? --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrb) 00:55, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Also, should there be a limitername variable instead of what I'm doing right now?--Dehstil (T | C) 01:11, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Well, drunkenness should appear in parentheses. I don't think it would be out of line to have "spleen", "full" or "drunk" as parameters. --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrb) 01:14, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
        • Actually, drunkenness gains do not appear in parentheses, since they actually show up in the game. Only fullness/spleen gains are shown in parentheses. --Quietust 10:27, 20 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Should it allow for adventure losses, should such a catastrophe occur? Or some sort of (oh noes!) sober pill that takes away drunkness? And this could be used for useable items that don't dissapear from your inventory. Also, what about tps drinks? Should it account for item drops for just put that after using this?--Dehstil (T | C) 01:04, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
    • I just fiddled with it so it now gives a TPS. You can revert it if we don't want to use it; I had fun playing. :) --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrb) 02:14, 19 June 2006 (CDT) Also, lameness on the acquire effect. Hot wad gives the effect before the consumption totals, whereas Gloomy mushroom wine gives the effect after. Are wads the only things that give the effect between the consumption text and the gains/losses? --LucySpace (Talk|Cntrb) 06:51, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Oh my god....We need parserfunctions so badly. I am going to go hound Jinya to upload the extension.--SomeStranger (T | C) 07:04, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Should we change it to have the item image on the top?--Dehstil (T | C) 14:51, 19 June 2006 (CDT)
  • Is this good to go now, or does any of it need work?--Dehstil (t|c) 20:07, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
  • I've made a few other changes to it, and I propose we rename it to {{Consume}} instead of {{Consumable}}, since it'll be used to show what happens when you consume the item - the name Consumable is too similar to Item, so I'd prefer to avoid it. --Quietust 12:13, 10 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Nobody reads this stuff anymore, so I'm just going to go and rename it. Upon further consideration, {{Useitem}} is a better name, since it will also be usable with non-food/booze/spleen items, as well as items you don't actually use up. --Quietust 21:46, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
    • ...I read it. Unfortunately my computer likes to crash and slow down a lot, I'll be getting a new computer soon, and all the wiki love will follow. Awesome with the rollout; need any help?--Dehstil (t|c) 21:51, 14 July 2006 (CDT)
      • And I read it, too. You don't seem to realize that not everybody has the time to log in here every day for several hours a day. Also, many people are in such different time zones that they won't be on at all when you're on. I appreciate your eagerness to get things done, but lately it comes across as high-handedness -- especially when you say things like "Nobody reads this stuff anymore, so I'm just going to go and rename it" or "No objections after 11 (ridiculous and not even funny) hours, so I've begun". Eleven hours? Even at wikipedia, with a much larger group of editors, 11 hours would be considered rushing things. Patience, young Padawan, patience. Work on something else while you're waiting for responses; there's always something to work on. -- Old Ned 04:29, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
        • Part of it is due to me being impatient, but for this particular proposal, the original comments came in on June 19th, followed by Dehstil's question of its readiness 10 days later, followed further by my pre-rollout suggestion another 10 days afterwards. After that many delays, I didn't feel like waiting for another week and a half before actually going through with updating the pages - would you have preferred that I waited an entire month for somebody to post a comment? Even your comment didn't come until 9 days after I had started - some people on this wiki schedule their time in weeks, others in days; I happen to schedule mine in hours.

          Also, this is not wikipedia - we have under 4,000 articles, while they have over a million. What seems like a very short preparation period to wikipedia is a really long time on a small site like this.

          Also, regarding the item template rollout, it's something I wanted to get finished, and I didn't have anything else to work on at the time, believe it or not. --Quietust 11:57, 23 July 2006 (CDT)
{{useitem|
image=.gif|
text=|
effect=|
adv=|
advloss=|
mus=|
mys=|
mox=|
posteffect=|
type=|
limiter=}}

All done! Now {{food}}, {{booze}}, and {{spleen}} can be retired. Except that some people still use them on their user pages. --Quietust 21:41, 5 August 2006 (CDT)

Item Numbers on Item Pages

I think that it would be cool if we placed the item number of each page in the top right hand corner (much like featured article stars on wikipedia). This is something that should appear somewhere on item pages and as soon as I get the stupid Monobook.css page up and running, placing it in the top right hand corner should be very simplistic.--SomeStranger (t|c) 22:23, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

  • There are two numbers associated with each item, effect, etc. I'd like to see both somewhere for those pages.--Dehstil (t|c) 22:31, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
    • Why does it need anthing to do with MediaWiki:Monobook.css? It could easily be done... just put a <div style="float:right"> at the top of {{item}}... Phlip 00:44, 29 June 2006 (CDT)
      • Have a look at the seal-clubbing club at the bottom of {{Item}}... is that the sort of thing you're after? It could use some tweaking (making it more clear what the 5 in-game links are for, and making it a bit less verbose - it's a bit wide for my liking... I can't think of a clever way to do both)... but it works. Phlip 02:21, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
        • I've noticed that you've been putting the item numbers in the item pages you're converting, though I've already converted nearly a thousand pages without said information - what are we going to do about all of those? Can StrangerBot be set up to fix all of those at once? --Quietust 15:05, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
          • Well, I figured it would be better to start putting them in now and have 1000 pages that need fixing than to wait 'till you were done and have 1600 pages that needed fixing... The itemids could easily be added by a bot, assuming Items by number is accurate (and I've been assuming that anyway)... descids, however... I guess it could probably pull them from Coldfront, since it has them... Phlip 22:34, 1 July 2006 (CDT)
  • KoLmafia has a nice list. Easily parsable too.:)--Dehstil (t|c) 23:12, 1 July 2006 (CDT)

Substats

And here I go again with another template for more easily dealing with substat gains and losses from adventures and items - {{stat}}. Give it the substats you're gaining/losing by name (as "mus=gain 5|mox=lose 15") or as a raw value (as "10"). Automatically centers it and everything. --Quietust 12:20, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

You gain 5 Beefiness.
You lose 10 Cheek.
You gain 10 <substat>.
  • That was fun. Maybe for my next trick, I'll figure some way to include combat attack/miss messages in {{battletop}} so we don't have to center them on every page and make sure to space them properly every time. But that can wait until later. --Quietust 21:24, 11 August 2006 (CDT)


Required Skills

Is it really necessary to include "Requires [skill name] to make" in notes for items that require special skills to craft (i.e. Advanced Cocktailcrafting/Superhuman Cocktailcrafting drinks, ore weapons, whips, pants/skirts/kilts made from furs and skins, ore helmet turtles, etc.) when users can easily see the special icons in the Recipe block (and even {{click}} on them to link to the relevant skill)?

In my opinion they should be removed now that the recipe block images are linked, if only to reduce clutter. --Quietust 10:32, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

  • Dump it. Completely unecessary with the little recipe pictures.--SomeStranger (t|c) 11:06, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
    • Done. Conveniently, that also took care of the fact that all of the "Requires [skill] to make" messages were phrased in slightly different ways - now they're all "formatted" the same (by not being there at all). --Quietust 12:49, 7 August 2006 (CDT)


Old templates that used to use 'P#' template

There are numerous templates which used to use the {{template|N|arg1=val|arg2=val|etc}} syntax back when we still used {{P}} (and {{P1}}/{{P2}}/{{P3}}/etc. before that). Said templates have since been converted to use ParserFunctions (which can properly support optional parameters), but they all still use the old syntax. Some of these could be simplified considerably, such as {{acquire}} (where modes 1 and 2 could be joined by checking the amount, and mode 3 could be detected by using a "chance" parameter instead of reusing "num") and a few others could become a lot less confusing, such as {{meat}} (where mode 2 is used for combat drops and mode 3 is used for losses, somewhat non-intuitive compared to the way {{HP}} and {{MP}} work). I've already updated {{HP}} to support a new syntax (using gain=N or loss=N instead of 1|amount=N and 2|amount=N) and categorize pages which use the old syntax, and the others would be relatively straightforward. Any thoughts, suggestions, or reasons why I shouldn't do this? --Quietust 09:53, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

  • I like it. Numbers like '1' and '2' confuse me. ;)--Dehstil (t|c) 15:33, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Let's pick a template (or two) and decide how we're going to convert them. Since it's one of the most confusing, I propose we start with {{acquire}} - distinguish between singular and plural using 'num', and use 'chance' for items dropped from combat. We might also want a way of handling both acquiring and losing items (to handle Denim Axes Examined, the only adventure which apparently displays a "You lose an item" message). --Quietust 15:08, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
      • Not sure if it was the easiest way to do it, but I set it up so it can work with both syntaxes...what do we do about the darkness syntax? I'm partial to {{acquire}} yielding
        somethingYou acquire... something.
        .--Dehstil (t|c) 16:04, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Agreed. Should just be a matter of defining a default image and item name. --Quietust 16:07, 16 August 2006 (CDT)
  • Upon further thought, I decided that the "gain=N" and "loss=N" syntax is rather messy for {{HP}} (and, by extension, MP/Meat/Adv). A better option might be to just put in type=gain and type=lose in place of the 1 and 2 (and possibly have it default to 'gain'. Takes a lot less template code that way (and puts less load on the wiki). --Quietust 12:31, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
    • Or, better yet, just put the gain/lose in an unnamed parameter to allow {{HP|gain|amount=5}} or {{HP|lose|amount=10-15}}. Either would be very straightforward to implement - it's just a matter of deciding which to use. --Quietust 12:36, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
      • Does that mean {{acquire}} needs to be revamped before I bot it?--Dehstil (t|c) 21:16, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
        • Nah, I think {{acquire}} is good with its new format - once everything's converted over, taking the old stuff out will vastly simplify the template code. I was just concerned that my original proposed update to {{HP}} made the template even more complicated than before, so I came up with a method that was similar to the original (but not using the numeric specifiers) and very simple in the template code itself. --Quietust 00:03, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
          • They're all fixed now. All of said templates use type=lose to indicate loss, defaulting to gain when not specified. --Quietust 11:53, 30 August 2006 (CDT)