Talk:Defeating The Naughty Sorceress

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It seems that yourkie1921 took it upon himself to move the NS strategy to a new page. However, he did a bad job of documenting his change. I personally think this isn't a bad idea, since the NS strategies need to be rethought since the NS-13 changes, but for now, I'm just going to go back and fix the documentation of previous pages to make it easier to see that this information has been moved. --Grampamoses 19:57, 7 October 2007 (CDT)

Possibly unneeded page?

As mentioned on the face of the page, it seems like this information might no longer be needed. The old strategies were required due to scaling stats and ability blocking making fighting the NS vaguely non-intuitive (make yourself weaker, but boost damage and/or damage mitigation and merely swing your weapon). The NS13 update, however, made this simple for Moxie and Muscle classes: boost your main stat. Since she still blocks abilities and Myst classes are still made of paper they need to take some special measures (boost your Musc or Mox, perhaps), but I think the rest of the page probably could be cleared unless people want to keep this as a list of reasonably aquirable gear that boosts Mox and Musc. In which case the page could probably be reformatted more along the lines of other pages that list gear for X purpose with the whole "Villa" "Lizardman" type scale. Basically.. do people still need this page? Bakapyrite 13:20, 30 November 2007 (CST)

I did the NS13 outfit writeup so I can speak to that. The outfits on this page contain equipment that people are likely to have in a hardcore run. (That's why there are multiple suggestions for each slot -- you won't always be able to pull your favorite.) Thus far the Dressing-for-Success people are interested in softcore only. If you think there is a place on their pages for hardcore equipment, it would be awesome if you could take that up with them.

I sort of agree with you that some of the information here is redundant (for example the page probably should link to the Combat Items article instead of trying to reproduce it). My experience has been that deleting people's work is a good way to get into an edit war (you can see some of that in the history of this article) but if you want to try cleaning the page up, by all means go for it.

Also, the strategy notes may be of questionable value, but the "General Info" section, and everything after "She's Dead, Now What?", are descriptions of game content. They could be moved but probably shouldn't be cleared. --PlatypusNinja 16:11, 30 November 2007 (CST)

Block Rate

The Sorceress blocked 49/100 of my cans of hair spray the first time I fought her. That combat ended. I dropped to one hit point, attacked her again, and killed myself with a flaregun. I fought her again and she blocked 45/100 cans of hair spray. I attacked her and ran away (flareguns have a lower backfire rate than I thought!). I attacked her eight more times and let the third form kill me each time. Then I sampled 100 more item-uses (over the course of two fights since the first fight had some misclicks) and she blocked 26/100 cans of hair spray.

This is probably not statistically significant, but I think it's enough to remove the disclaimer on the article. --PlatypusNinja 03:45, 25 December 2007 (CST)

Strategy update

Ah, beautiful clean talk page! I rewrote the strategy section and killed a few outdated strategies. In particular:

• I removed the Chronic Indigestion strategy since she has too many hit points now for it to work. If you have enough moxie that she's not hurting you, kill her with a ranged weapon.
• Likewise for the let-your-familiar-kill-her strategy.
• Elemental damage is no longer special since there is no damage cap.
• Combined the profiles into four: Moxie, Myst, two for Muscle. There's really not much difference between Accordion Thief strategy and Disco Bandit strategy anyway.

Still needs doing:

• Muscle strategy: Am I right that you want to get to 210 muscle and simple-attack?
• Myst strategy: Somebody posted a while ago that wicker shield beats kickback cookbook, and it's certainly been working for me, but I'm not sure if that's true for everyone.

One final note: When posting your NS strategy, be sure to post your stats! If you got great results from wearing fire and the furry pants, but your moxie was 300 anyway so she couldn't hit you, that's not quite as significant...  ;) --PlatypusNinja 20:42, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

I don't like the fact that the character classes have been combined. I am putting those back to what they were.--Poketape 16:30, 12 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, okay, but could you update them for NS13? There's a bunch of really stupid suggestions in those things (fire? come on), which is why I concluded they weren't being maintained. If all that's bothering you is that I listed four profiles instead of six, I'd be willing to mark mine with the class-names and just have some of them be nearly identical. Also, a tip -- if you go back to a page in the history and click "edit", the wiki will give you the wiki-code for the old version of page. If you copy-paste the wiki-code, you won't have to go back through and reformat it with square brackets. --PlatypusNinja 14:39, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

• There does seem to be a fair bit of duplication in the class-separated strategies (Muscles smack, Moxies dodge, Mysts spell, and everyone heals), although there is space for variation (only DBs can funksling). Having separate classes is probably a good idea, as people consulting this page are likely newer and have fewer cross-class skills permed. If there's anything obviously wrong, it should be removed... I find it funny that the page would list Mr. Store items worth 30M (the dodecapede), as no-one would spend that kind of Meat to fight her (and most people reading this page wouldn't be able to afford it!). It seems odd that the new strategies don't include spell slinging of any sort... presuming an uncapped spell can get through, wouldn't that do a lot of damage? Some explanation of why the suggested equipment is good would also be nice (Moxie players trying to max out their dodging, for example). --Bagatelle 22:51, 16 October 2007 (CDT)
  • As far as my own edits are concerned, this page is discussing only hardcore strategy. (In softcore I would just pull +moxie gear and consider the problem solved.) In hardcore, the story goes like this. The best chefstaff I could reasonably do is the +35% one. (Actually I haven't even bothered to get the chefstaff skill yet.) There are three decent +spell damage items (voodoo mask, kickback cookbook, baconstone pendant), but any +spell damage item I equip is taking a slot I could have used for +moxie. Then, once I add up all my spell-damage modifiers, my Wave of Sauce is doing only slightly more than a beer bomb. (And I would run out of mana before I killed her with Saucegeyser, especially counting that she will block some attacks.) I'm sure a spell-damage kill is possible but my feeling is it's much less efficient. --PlatypusNinja 01:37, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

I've updated the outfits for Disco Bandit and Accordion Thief, because those are the least complicated strategically. Before I do the rest I'm going to wait a few days and see if anyone objects. Once all the outfits are updated I'm planning to delete my four outfit templates (and just leave the six). --PlatypusNinja 00:32, 19 October 2007 (CDT)

Is stat raising really better?

The article recommends raising ones stats if a Myst, or Muscle class in order to kill the Sorceress. Personally I found hoarding semi-rare items during a ascension (mostly scented massage oils) are alot more time efficient especially when in hardcore. It'll be even easier in softcore since they can be bought, and are not that expensive. Any holes in my strategy?--Trytoguess 07:21, 20 October 2007 (CDT)

For softcore, I'd stick with my Brimstone Beret / Brimstone Boxers / Plexiglass Pendant / Didgeridooka any day. For softcore players without that equipment, perhaps you are right.

For hardcore, I'd worry about using all those items and then losing anyway (for example because she blocked them). Can you give us some more details? How many times have you killed her using this method? What equipment do you recommend? What are your stats usually (pre- and post- buff)? How many times do you lose to her beforehand? --PlatypusNinja 22:57, 20 October 2007 (CDT)

• I only play HC, so my NS myst equipment can be best described as "whatever I got and maybe a Star spatula" (can't make staves, no Pulverize...) I've only used this method 3 times with 2-3 shrinking powders and 12 oils. If the powder works then I have some oils left, otherwise I can end up using them all. This is a bit risky true, but it's better timewise than raising ones other stats to the level of muscle, and moxie classes just to kill her imo.--Trytoguess 12:35, 26 October 2007 (CDT)

I find that, as a moxie class, raising moxie works great. As a muscle class, getting around 200 muscle allows you to take her down with 3-4 LTSs or HKS combos per form. Myst classes are where stat raising is not the best option, rather using good battlefield combat items and heals is good, as long as you don't run out. If you run out, then boosting spell damage is better than boosting myst. This is only anecdotal, as I have not done any NS13 fights as a myst class in HC yet (cursed Real-life getting in the way) so this is just what my clannies have told me, but hey, it sounds logical. --CheezyBob 23:06, 20 October 2007 (CDT)

HP

I hit the second form for 602 and she didn't drop, so I came here and found that people already know she has over 600 HP. I did some low damage spells to see what the level was. She never healed and it took between 617 and 626 to beat her down. --Crowther 13:26, 25 October 2007 (CDT)

New Council Text

It seems there is new council text on finishing the quest and freeing King Ralph. Probably something to do with Crimbo 2007.

Aaaahhh! No! Don't kill... oh wait, it's just you. We thought you were... never mind.

"Congratulations, Adventurer! It's the end of your quest as we know it. Don't worry, we feel fine. You've freed the king and made us obsolete. Ah, well. Hail to the king, baby.

There's one little matter of obscure prophecy we forgot to tell you about, though. Sorry -- Dave, our librarian, just brought it to our attention. Apparently, your physical presence is somehow tied to the continuing monster attacks in the kingdom. As long as you remain on this plane of existence, the attacks will continue. It seems that it wasn't just the Sorceress -- the monsters just really, really don't like you.

I don't suppose you'd bugger off this mortal coil, would you? Our instruments (especially the tuba) show there's a rip in the fabric of reality that appeared when you fought the Sorceress. If you jump in there, you'll ascend to a higher plane and peace will rule our land."

--Pyler Turden 00:01, 10 December 2007 (PST)

• Man, the admins chose the wrong time to put that in the game. Everyone thinks the "Don't kill..." message is Crimbo-related now. It's not. You're wearing something that makes the Council think you're much more... revolutionary. --Southwest 02:28, 10 December 2007 (CST)

New Items, new strategies.

Well I figure, that with the new Crimbo items, defeating the NS might be easier. For example, the unstable laser battery does 200-250 damage and stun. Also, some of the new equips might be useful too (I haven't looked into them, too lazy) If anyone has a similar opinion, please edit the page. I can't be bothered. --Gnataes 16:25, 23 December 2007 (CST)

This page tries to concentrate on equipment you could have in Hardcore. (In Softcore you can pull Brimstone equipment / Mr. Accessories / IotMs and she's not even a challenge.) The Crimborg items will not be available in Hardcore long enough to make it worth updating the page. --PlatypusNinja 16:39, 23 December 2007 (CST)

How about some of the base pairs you can get with the baby sandworm? One of them gives +100% moxie, is used in combat, thus the NS doesn't debuff. Seems like something that'd make the battle MUCH easier.--Darkfeline 01:49, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Possible reference?

I don't want to get ahead of myself and just start posting what I think things might be in reference to, what about a possible reference to Angel? What with the whole ascending to a higher being thing, and it being really boring, so you go back? Sorry, maybe I've just been watching too much Joss.--Embobly 16:34, 26 January 2008 (CST)

Things not debuffed

Soul-Crushing Headache is not removed by the NS. I'm conjecturing that all strictly negative status affects are no longer removed by the NS. Anyone had one recently that she removed? --Flargen 00:08, 19 February 2008 (CST)

Longer Combat

I just took out the Sorceress, and it took me a total of 64 rounds. So the cap on number of rounds it takes to kill her before losing (without being beaten up) has definitely been increased. Oh, and for what it's worth, she rarely hit me, and I only had a Moxie of 204, although I also (accidentally) had my detuned radio set to 10... --Barbarian7 12:57, 27 February 2008 (CST)

Might wanna fix, I believe you still need the wand.

You're fighting The Naughty Sorceress (3)

"Dang it!" you shout. "How many times do I have to kill you? This battle has taken over a half an hour and there's no save point!"

"Ha! You will never defeat me!" The Sorceress cackles. There is a muffled *POP* and a slightly greasy smell as the apparition vanishes and is replaced by a nasty-looking floating sausage.

That's weird, you think, but before you can think anything else the sausage fires a BEAM OF DARK ENERGY at you. You see no way to arrange (or rearrange, for that matter) your fate as the beam hits you. You are thrown out the gaping hole in the side of the chamber and fall to the base of the tower, tea over asskettle. Er, ass over teakettle. Ugh! Ouch! Oof! Eek! Ouch! Argh! Ouch! Eek! Ugh! Ouch! You lose 760,996 hit points.

You lose. You slink away, dejected and defeated.

Go back to the Sorceress' Chamber

^ without the wand equip March 29,2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregtampa (talk • contribs) on 29 March 2008

• I've never had a wand equipped since NS13. Do you have one in inventory? --Bagatelle 09:48, 29 March 2008 (CDT)

Probably don't need much strategy anymore

Well, i haven't been on KOL for Awhile, after NS13 rolled out, i Ascended a few times, and left for awhile, and recently, i've found the new Elemental Rings, (The ones that give you +40 in whichever element the ring represents) completely destroys her. now, i understand if we're talking about Hardcore/Bad moon ascenders, it's another thing entirely, but otherwise, the rings are on the mall cheap, and one could easily obtain the amount of meat to get them all in roughly 100-200 adventures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokmin100 (talk • contribs) on 0:04, 12 April 2008

• did you look at divine items? pretty much make hardcore ns fights trivial. --Evilkolbot 05:24, 12 April 2008 (CDT)
• The star boomerang is a pretty powerful weapon for taking her down. One hand and plus six moxie. Maybe it could be worked in somewhere. --Regularjoe 20:39, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

+ML

Maybe I'm just insane, but I'm a Level 17 AT with 280 base moxie, and I'm planning on using my best ML increasing items when I fight the Naughty Sorceress, just for fun. What with my serpentine sword, snake shield, buoybottoms, two rings of aggravate monster, a C.A.R.N.I.V.O.R.E. button, the annoying pitchfork, and my detuned radio, I can have up to +67 monster level. I'm pretty sure I can defeat her, but I might not be able to hit her with the serpentine sword, so I might have to use my Plexiglass Pike Pike instead. I just have a couple of questions about this idea.

• Does anyone know if doing something like this will give me any extra bonuses from defeating her? and
• Am I completely stupid for wanting to try this?

Any other thoughts or recommendations you have are welcome. Thanks.--Knobula 12:18, 25 May 2008 (CDT)

Heck, if you have nothing better to do, you may as well. I don't predict it doing anything for you, but you never know right? Post if you get a trophy or something. InvalidUser 00:02, 26 May 2008 (CDT)

• I just realized that if I buy Ur-Kel's aria, and have that effective when I fight her, it would boost the +ML to 101; assuming she doesn't remove that effect when the fight starts, and I'm guessing that she won't because she typically doesn't remove negative effects. Does anyone know if she will remove it? I'm tempted to try it. I mean, if defeating the NS with over +100 ML doesn't earn me a trophy, it damn well should.--Knobula 09:30, 27 May 2008 (CDT)
  • I've decided to go for it; all +101 ML. However, due to the fact that she quells buffs, and almost all of my equipment slots are going to be used to increase her level, I'll have to increase my muscle the old fashioned way. It could take a while, as I'm in Oxycore. I don't think I mentioned that before... and that's why I think this is such a big deal. I don't think defeating the NS with +101 ML in Normal or Casual would be such a great accomplishment, but doing so in Hardcore is a much different story. Or at least I think so... I've only done Oxycores since my original, and this is only my third ascension with this character, so compared to many of you people, I'm still a huge n00b. Oh, and obviously if any of you know of anyone trying anything like this, let me know.--Knobula 18:52, 1 June 2008 (CDT)

I just defeated her with +52 ML on one of my other accounts. No special bonus; but the stat gains were ridiculous (not that it matters anymore). My other two accounts still need a bit more leveling up before they're ready. Next Muscle day at the latest.--Knobula 19:51, 15 June 2008 (CDT)

• Yeah... I know it's been quite a while, and I actually defeated her a while ago, but I moved soon after, and I haven't gotten around to playing KoL until a couple of days ago. I attacked her with +103 ML (the extra 2 from the previously mentioned 101 is because I leveled up, and Ur-Kel's adds +2 per level); but she removed Ur-Kel's Aria of Annoyance at the beginning of the fight... nothing special happened, apart from HUGE stat gains probably averaging around 500 substats for each stat (I recently defeated her with another account but with 10 less +ML (ring of aggravate monster instead of CARNIVORE button) and I got over well over 500 substats in muscle and moxie (on a muscle day) and close to 500 in mysticality.--Knobula 23:26, 17 July 2008 (CDT)

Turns Required

I originally thought the NS was similar to Ed the Undying, in that it takes 3 adventures to kill her, and if you have less than 3 adventures, you cannot start the battle. Today, I started the battle with only 1 adventure. My "adventures remaining" counter dropped to zero after defeating her first form, but I was still able to continue the battle, eventually defeating her third form.

New outfits, pl0x

Okay, whoever wrote this page only made two outfits and just copy-pasted 4 more times. We need individual outfits that actually APPLY to the individual classes, and the additional strategies for each class should be updated as well. --Cocoadileking 20:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)