Discussion

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It's like Discussion, y'all. Anything that you might want to draw attention to can be posted and commented upon here. A central location for discussions is more viable than commenting in talk pages, where it may be easily overlooked.

Discussion Archives
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Delay() or Conditional Adventures?

So as the Turkey blaster is a thing which exists, I was attempting to spade all the locations where it can be used to cut turns in-run. However looking at the Delay() page it says "This page should be converted to a be historical note about delay(), with remaining turns_spent_in_zone conditions in Conditional Adventures instead.". So what's the consensus? Should the delay() page be kept up to date as most of the historic conjecture on that page turned out not to be true or should we carry out the transition to Conditional Adventures with a redirect from/disambiguation page for delay()?--Malibu Stacey (talk) 17:15, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

NeedsStats Category

I am in progress of eliminating this category, through recategorization. I think the idea is a nice one, but there's not enough work being done in any category to really keep that separate. I am manually switching the tag to:

  • NeedsSpading (if it was missing drops and meat)
  • NeedsContent (if it was missing messages)

Once done, I'll want to have the category itself removed, the template removed, and the template no longer listed on Current Projects. I can do the last, and will post the others under Pages for Deletion once finished. This is more of a heads up.-Foggy (talk) 15:51, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Incomplete Stuff

Working through incomplete category pages, and there are two that I can't figure out what's making them incomplete:

  • Extra Backbone. Claims to have incomplete metadata, but I think the category is only suppose to trigger with an incomplete effect field, which this has.
  • exploding gum. Not sure if the item needs an effect field that's then left blank, but I couldn't find what's triggering this.

I worked through a lot of the familiars with incomplete arena rankings, the rest are familiars on my main that I'll try to find some time to work on.-Foggy (talk) 15:36, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

  • Nice work! For Extra Backbone, the effect=... field was triggering it---I think that's a hold-over from when effect descriptions moved to the meta-data, and the incomplete category was used to mark ones not yet ported. For exploding gum, it needed noenchantment=1 specified, as most combat items have some kind of enchantment, and ones without need to be marked or they're considered incomplete. --Fig bucket (talk) 21:09, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Good to know. There are 10 Familiars remaining, all of which I can on the 30th (I get my Miniature Sword & Martini guy then). That just leaves two Nuclear Autumn skills and one Sneaky Pete skill.-Foggy (talk) 22:51, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
    • All familiars are done. We just having missing messages for those three skills.-Foggy (talk) 15:51, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Front Page News Maintenance

I was wondering from where the "News of the Kingdom from Coldfront" is pulled, as the last time it appears to have been updated is the release of the LT&T in February. It's being driven by the Recent News page, so I'm proposing this be manually maintained from now on, with the following information:

  • Current IOTM description with links;
  • Whatever monthly announcements are posted by KoL;
  • Trivial updates posted by KoL;
  • Any Coldfront/Wiki news

Which means this month's would appear something like my user page segment. I'm happy to maintain this, but I'd need permission to create new pages or the privilege of editing the News:Latest_News page, so that I can make them and keep the news updated. I'd also maintain the History_of_Loathing_(2016) page. Objections? Thoughts? --Cakeytaste (talk) 16:34, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

  • The Coldfront news, in a weird Ourobourus way, is pulling news articles from the KolWiki. We do need to extend permissions for creating pages in the News namespace as six months is a pretty long time to go un-updated.-Foggy (talk) 19:21, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Changing user permissions requires a coldfront admin, not just wiki admins. Before, and perhaps until that happens, if anyone wants to demonstrate their ability to put together a suitable article I would be happy to paste it in. --Fig bucket (talk) 22:00, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
      • Done. Feel free to tinker with it as you see fit (I'm not entirely sure how the image will show up. User:Foggy/NewsStory-Foggy (talk) 16:16, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
        • Great! Should be on the front page now. --Fig bucket (talk) 17:35, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Monster Data Revamp

  • Things we need to add: Group size, gender. Scaling monsters needs better handling. Perhaps we can add a "scale=1" as well as a "scalemod=5" (which adds 5 to the standard scaling), "scalefloor" and a "scalecap". We might want to add soft and hard damage caps as well. This one is kind of a lot of work for little benefit, but perhaps we could add a flags tag (eg flags=nopowder,nopopper,noputty) that mimics what KoL uses and would use foxway or something to split them up. This would remove the need for a bunch of notes in the monster page. Here is a list of the flags we know of (from the last stream).
  • Things we need to change: Physical resist needs to be split into physical resist and elemental resist. Item drops should be moved into one category, with perhaps a template tag (eg filthworm hatchling scent gland{{t|q}} could be displayed on the drop page to denote how quest items are currently denoted). The bad spelling and shadow elements might need to go, as I think they have one of the 6 actual elements.
  • Things we need to remove: The nohit tag is kind of pointless at this point and should be removed.

This is a lot of work but I think if we can get this stuff discussed and implemented the monster data pages will be a lot nicer. If we can do this I have plans for a whole bunch of other things, but let's keep it simple for now. — Cool12309 (talk) 15:54, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

  • I don't feel like scale=1 would be needed, would it? Just have it so if scalemod= anything but 0 it overrides attack/defense/HP and requires the other two tags. Though this is coming from someone who knows next to nothing about the intricacies of mediawiki, so maybe that's difficult.
    I agree that nohit could do with being removed, and that scalefloor, scalecap, gender, and groupsize would be good additions. Splitting resistance would also be great. --KingBobson (talk) 22:15, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
  • As was discussed in PMs between us two, I think the way to go would be (if possible) "scale=0,1,1000" to denote regular scaling (does not add or subtract anything), floor of 1, max of 1000. If that's not possible, "scale=5" for +5 scaling, and then the scalemin and scalemax. Anyone else have opinions on this? — Cool12309 (talk) 00:32, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
  • After seeing how Jick handles the scale tag, I'd definitely be in favor of scale, scalemin, and scalemax. I'd refrain from scale=X,Y,Z because that requires knowing which is which, and we have a lot of impediments as it is new wiki updaters.-Foggy (talk) 18:30, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Please replace "pronoun" with "article", too.__Blargh (talk) 15:59, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
  • So, to summarize:
    Add
    • coldresist, elementalresist, hotresist, phys[ical?]resist, sleazeresist, spookyresist, stenchresist: %-values ≥ 0.0 and ≤ 100.0
    • combatitemresist, delevelresist, spellresist, stunresist: %-value ≥ 0.0 and ≤ 100.0
    • damagecapcold, damagecaphot, damagecapphysical, damagecapsleaze, damagecapspooky, damagecapstench: integer values ≥ 0
    • damagemitigation: integer value ≥ 0
    • damagemitigationrate: real value ≥ 0.0
    • flags: comma-separated list of {nopotato,nopowder,noputty,nostagger}
    • gender ∈ {male,female,neuter}
    • groupsize: blank, or integer value ≥ 2
    • scale: blank, or integer value ≥ 0
    • scalemax, scalemin: integer values ≥ 0
    Change
    • pronoun → article
    Remove (eventually)
    • nohit
    • physical
  • Please augment/modify (the linked image is truncated...). Also:
    • I'm not sure where/how nohit/physical are currently used, but it would not be that hard to make the transition relatively seamless by branching on the existence of a field added/deleted/changed (or even adding a temporary field, "new=1" to help with detecting old vs new and autocat-ing appropriately)
    • The string parser functions would enable testing of individual booleans in a flags field---I'd suggest not using foxway for parsing that, as it can complicate template-nesting.
    • Combat-specific text fields like "nopotatomessage" seem like they would be better in the actual combat pages ({{Battle}} template) rather than in the Data page.
    • Even if not matching the game code exactly, better to be consistent in using "phys" or "physical".
    • For scaling, is it really that simple: if it's scaling at all then it just gets a fixed scaling increase, and a min/max? (If not, a separate, "scaleformula" field could be added as well to specify the formula when it deviates from the norm). --Fig bucket (talk) 13:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
      • For scales, Jick marked a monster as scales(5) during the twitch stream, so it should be that simple. Dreadsylvania werewolves have some sort of variance going on, but that's the only scaling monster I can think of with that trait. I'll update motorhead as an example. There are some monsters (Fernswarthy, Fun Guy playmates, and Weirdeaux creations) that scale, but not in the same way. (They get tougher based on number defeated.) For those, I would rather put a formula in attack/defense/HP rather than do anything with scales. For nopotatomessage, let's keep it in Data...the more we have in data, the more flexible we are in including that information elsewhere.
        • Perhaps we could do scales=! to indicate special formula scaling (which would say something like "Special" or "Scales specially" or such) and just include the formula on the monster page.
Finally, since Asymmetric sends item information to Coldfront, should we discuss with them doing the same for monster information? This would make it dramatically easier to get all this information loaded in.-Foggy (talk) 14:34, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
This would be fantastic, but I would be surprised if they did this, as it gives away a lot of information. Plus it's kind of weird, what info do we send over, exactly? It would require a lot of communication, and communicating directly to TPTB is sort of difficult. The best way would be to talk to /dev through dev members about this (mainly JLE, bmaher, and especially cannon since he's an admin here as well). — Cool12309 (talk) 18:59, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Are hotres coldres ... sleazeres really needed? I cannot think of a single monster that has that property. Jick Skeletons, maybe? But with numbers that low, eleres=special seems much easier. --KingBobson (talk) 00:43, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
Isn't pluralis a seperate gender?__Blargh (talk) 10:41, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

So, before I go and add all these fields, let's close some of these loose ends:

  • Are we keeping hotresist, coldresist, etc. or doing eleresist, elemresist, elementresist, or elementalresist? (And if so, which?)
  • Likewise, will we need hotcap, coldcap, or elecap etc?
  • Gender will probably be m, f, and n. Should we also have "g" for group (since they don't have genders)?
  • Groupsize will just be "group=10" instead of groupsize (unless groupsize somehow makes more sense?)
  • Will we be using the flags parameter or not? I personally don't know how to split them up, so someone (Fig bucket) will have to do that.
  • As above, we need to be consistent on the use of phys or physical. I think phys is probably better, unless we decide for elementalx above (or possibly even elementx)
  • There's the issue of monsters who have custom scaling formulas. Do we put the formula in scale, in attack/etc., or just scale=! and put the formula on the monster page?
  • Should we have the custom messages in the data field? I don't think we should, but maybe that's because of our relatively conservative use of putting fields onto data pages (keeping it to a minimum). I don't see why we couldn't add it to the data page, but I also don't see why we need to.
  • Anything else I've missed?

Cool12309 (talk) 23:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


Collection issues

Y'know that little "top 10 collections" box at the bottom of every item page? That thing hasn't been updating properly for a long while now. Anyone know what the deal is with that? --billybobfred (talk) 20:46, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

  • I'll look into this tonight. I suspect it's a cron hiccup.--caseyweederman (talk) 00:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
    • Seems like this still isn't updating right. Looks like around the time of Conspiracy Island, things stopped updating. --PeKaJe (talk) 19:07, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
    • And now it looks like the collection database itself is having problems: "Error: Incorrect key file for table './colddb_dcdb/collections.MYI'; try to repair it" —Yendor (talk) 02:35, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
    • The collection database seems to be back in working order, but the "top 10" still isn't updating. Adwriter (talk) 08:20, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
    • This problem still exists. The database works though and you can see the data by going to the webpage directly. What is the RSS file that it says is missing?--Hellno (talk) 02:38, 16 February 2016 (UTC)


Namespaces

There are a lot of old pages (10 years old!) that existed before namespaces did. They should be moved but I ran into a problem with Proposed Standards last night. I got the main page and the archives to TheKolWiki:Proposed Standards but the talk page was protected so I couldn't move it. Its probably best if an admin moves the more important pages. Established Standards and Discussion should both be in TheKolWiki namespace too, these will also need the side bar and template links correcting. There are also a few help pages like Make a Wiki page that need to go to Help:Make a Wiki page. I will try to tidy up the help pages. Discordance (talk) 10:08, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

IRC link

Can we drop the IRC link from the sidebar? Its still using java plugins which are such massive security holes chrome no longer supports them. Or replace it with an irc:// link. Discordance (talk) 10:13, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

  • IRC is coldfront's original focus, and something I know nothing about---maybe better to ask Nightvol or Caseyweederman about it. --Fig bucket (talk) 23:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Crimbo Town page

The Crimbo Town page needs the line of towns broken into two lines; the new entry for 2015 is overlapping the Coldfront sidebar at fullscreen, and it's worse with a narrower window. I don't know how to make it wrap appropriately, adjusting for the window width. (I'm using Firefox, if that's applicable.) Also, the crimbotown15.gif needs to be uploaded; I'm assuming those are created by someone with image editing skills; artistry is not my forte. ;) --Terion (talk) 00:21, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

  • MCroft split the list of towns into two lines mere hours after I posted that, so thanks to MCroft. It's still static, and doesn't change the wrapping if displayed in a smaller window, but that may be prohibitive to code. --Terion (talk) 08:01, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
    • I did some weird stuff to it. It's technically all on one row now, and the rest of the cells spill over as needed. On FF (for me), it adjusts all the way down from (a max of) 6 columns (based on max space allowed) to 5 to 4 to 3 to 2 to1 column(s) as I drag the window width thinner (of course then the table gets more rows). Does that work for you? Or anyone? :P JRSiebz (|§|) 08:43, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
      • Looks good to me. Both FF and Chrome compress nicely, adding additional rows as needed. Interestingly, it looks like it won't (for me, anyway) go to a single row; even with the window stretched across two monitors, it stays as a row of 6 and a row of 5. But not expanding to fill an excess of space is minor to the point of ignorable compared to going outside its intended boundaries. Thanks! --Terion (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

KolWiki weight loss

Looking at the wiki, I see two central issues:

  1. The wiki is terribly bloated with false/outdated/irrelevant information.
  2. A lot of things are a mishmash of old content awkwardly conjoined with new content, and it's hard to tell where the old ends and new begins.

Should there be a more thorough reassess/refresh of the wiki's content? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamb (talkcontribs)

  • This is way too ambiguous. How about some examples? ~Erich t/c 08:39, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
    • I was thinking burn everything up and do a ground-up rebuild/refresh of articles based on including content from the old article only so long as it's relevant and fitting with the tighter, leaner goals we have in mind, given the Wiki has a leaner group of active editors. This ensures that the wiki is cleaner and neater and more relevant. It also fits the more modest goals of our smaller editing team. Lamb (talk) 08:00, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
  • The problem is that no one wants to contribute to it. Everyone just expects it to be good, sees that it's not, and starts disliking the wiki. Then they go into chat and get the impression that all of their edits will be reverted and pages deleted, so they feel as if their contributions will be in vain. It's a massive wiki, and the only way to keep it up to date is by having lots of active editors. — Cool12309 (talk) 20:22, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Well, we can't do much about that. What we can do is work with what we already have, right? See my above comment. Lamb (talk) 08:00, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Specifics

Two Goals: Project 1: Restructuring Problem: The game has changed a lot over the years. The structure/organization of content currently in place is woefully outdated. It represents a time long gone. It also impedes content management by editors. Solution:

  1. Make a /historical backup version of structural/organizational content (recipes, lists, matrices, hub pages, etc) and start afresh, with a structure that reflects the game and user needs circa 2016.
  2. Keep user-facing data on /actual pages. Update /actual pages ONLY with relevant content from /historical pages, filling in the gaps as necessary.
  3. Result: Up to date, fresh, neat, simple, and useful content for readers. Easy to manage content for editors.

Project 2: Cleanup Problem: We have bloated, clunky and outdated content that's overwhelming to deal with. We need to fix that, but individually tweaking pages is not good enough. We need a forest fire to clear the land and start afresh. Solution:

  1. Make a /historical backup version of each page where current bloated content is backed up. Trivia, historical/retired information, non-essential data, outdated data, editorializing, other esoteric content, etc will be moved in the /historical page.
  2. User-facing content will feature on the /actual page. /actual page will be leaner, containing minimal necessary content (a) in-game descriptions, and (b) essential information. More importantly, it will be up-to-date, verified upon
  3. Result: Content is leaner, up-to-date and accurate from the ground up for reader consumption. Content is easier to manage for the editors.

Action Plan: If we're making this happen,

  1. The first step is to plan out content structure based on what the state of the game circa 2016, and what information is important, relevant, and useful.
  2. The second step is to figure out how to automate the creation of a /historical copy of every page on the wiki. This preserves our current content, and gives us the freedom to rebuild the /actual pages from the ground up, borrowing liberally from /historical as necessary.

Lamb (talk) 08:26, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Perhaps you can start a new wiki to demonstrate your idea, and see whether people like it or not. --Fig bucket (talk) 10:46, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I think you truly do not understand the scale of the wiki, nor the number of people required for this to happen. There are tens of thousands of pages, and if we're being optimistic 100 "active" editors. Yes, a large number of these are item/skill/familiar/etc pages, but the number of "real" pages is still incomprehensible. Your plan would be good if we were starting a brand new wiki, or if KoL 2 suddenly came out and we had to redo the wiki, but neither of those things are happening. If you truly do want to help the wiki, about all you can do at this point is to focus on a specific project, complete it, and go to the next one. — Cool12309 (talk) 20:55, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Would it be a wise idea than to consolidate pages that can be viably merged? Perhaps have one large cocktailcrafting page that contains various sections for the different levels of cocktailcrafting? Lamb (talk) 01:04, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
      • no, they were broken up because they would have become unwieldy. --Evilkolbot (talk) 21:09, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:Tattoo

The Tattoo template does not center the "Please allow me to paint your portrait..." or the tattoo-specific text, but they are centered in-game. (The Artist's picture and the "You have unlocked a new tattoo." are being properly centered.) I looked at the template, but I don't know the code enough to deal with all the brackets I saw in there. --Terion (talk) 02:51, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

  • I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I jumped on to a multi, got him the Reversed Disco Bandit Tattoo (vanilla), and took a screencap. They look identical to me. What are you seeing that's different? ~Erich t/c 07:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Ignore what I said before, I see what you mean now. ~Erich t/c 07:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I just noticed that Fig bucket added an option (back in July of 2013) to put center=true in as one of the template arguments to make it center the text of those two lines I mentioned, so he could make the Boss Tattoo do that. Not sure which tattoo I got that was centered; might have been Barrel. Eh, I'll use a multi to pick up some of the recent tattoos I've gotten to see which of them was centered and made me post that, now that I know how to make the template do that. --Terion (talk) 05:21, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Ok, it looks like KoL is handling the "Please allow..." line and the tattoo-specific line(s) as one block of text, and centering that block based on the longer of the two lines, and then the shorter line is left-justified to the longest line. If that was hard to read, no worries: I used a multi to get the tattoo for Cold Comforts (which has one really long line and one shorter one and the "Please allow..." is the shortest), stretched the window over two monitors to get the window wider than the longest line, and took this screencap. You can see that the middle line is centered with the Artist's picture, and the first and third line each left-aligned with the middle line. This means that if someone gets a tattoo with a window sized such that the main frame does not have enough width to fit the longest line (and thus the longest line wraps), then every smaller line will appear to be left-aligned. This also means that centering each line individually, which is what the template does now with center=true, is not quite correct either, just as having all the lines simply left-aligned is not correct. It looks like maybe all the tattoos are this way; I picked an old one, the Knob Goblin Elite Guard outfit tattoo, and obtained it on my multi, and this screencap shows that it is "centered" in the same way. Not sure exactly how we can make the wiki act the same as KoL, or if we just want to say "Eh, more important things in life" and either leave things left justified or have it just center all tats in the way that center=true does on an individual basis now. --Terion (talk) 06:25, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Proposal: Theoretical Game Limits (re: Extra PvP Fights)

Extra PvP Fights has a section in the notes for theoretical maximum. That's interesting and all, but it's a really unneeded distraction from the main article, and furthermore it's already outdated (doesn't take into account free combats, switching out the AGK for a Shrub at one point, numberology, deck of card, other adventure giving items, and I'm sure more things that'll be introduced later). There was already a theoretical maximum section for Maximizing Your Rollover Adventures, but it was removed Dec '12 (albeit in a belligerent manner), and I think the pvp section should follow suit. I'm removing that section, but I don't wish to remove the information permanently from the wiki.

In its stead, I propose a stand-alone separate page for theoretical limits (Theoretical Game Limits is my proposed page title). One that can be updated whenever people get the urge to theorize and number crunch, that could be linked to its respective pages (pvp, adv, modifiers, turncounts, whatever), and wouldn't clutter an already existing article with stuff that isn't really relevant. Also, it can become outdated safely without affecting any other page.

Thoughts? ~Erich t/c 00:34, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Sure, that makes sense.--Fig bucket (talk) 10:19, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Good riddance to that section from Extra PvP Fights. It was usually outdated, difficult to update, and not really informative or useful. I'm not sure introducing a new page that replicates that for various subjects is really desirable. --Darkcodelagsniper (talk) 13:29, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Template:Hit Message choking on hit message in Category:Shotguns

The fourth hit message I added on the Shotguns category page (You roll out a barrel of fun (where 'fun' = buckshot) to the tune of X damage.) seems to be making the Hit Message template choke, and only output {{{1}}} and the sound effects. I'm guessing it's due to the special characters in the text, but if so I'm a little surprised that it never happened before. I'm asking someone more familiar with the Template code to see if I screwed something up on the Shotguns page or if something needs to be fixed in the Hit Message template. --Terion (talk) 04:31, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Error in patent avarice tonic or in Template:Item

Just added the patent avarice tonic potion (Cheeng drop, naturally) and it's got the error "Type: potionExpression error: Unexpected > operator." I don't see any unexpected > in the page, so I'm assuming it's some interaction between the page and the Item template it's calling. --Terion (talk) 01:54, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

  • Fixed; the autosell value was specified, but left blank. --Fig bucket (talk) 09:19, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Template:Part randomization no longer works as described

The error can be plainly seen in the template description. Both {{part}} and {{part|}} generate a completely unique part each call. ... What do ? --billybobfred (talk) 02:17, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

  • Yeah...not sure when that happened...maybe the MW1.24.1 update? Anyway, the madlib extension could be used instead, but the syntax is different, and would require editing each sentence in which {{part}} is used, at least wherever agreement between two uses desired... --Fig bucket (talk) 21:05, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Effects Pages

Over the last eight days, I've been able to get a fair amount of work done on updating the Modifier pages with missing equipment thanks to a master list I started maintaining about two years ago. I plan to do something similar for effects and outfits, but it's going to take time. Working on the Modifier pages however, I think I see some definite ways we can improve them, and I'd like to see what people think. I've broken this into things I need someone else to do, and things I plan to do.

  • Things I need someone else to do
    1. When autocating equipment, auto-cat shields into off-hand items. They currently auto-cat to their own category, and should continue to do so. But just like clubs are auto-catted into melee weapons, it would be greatly helpful for shields to also be auto-catted into their equipment slot.
    2. When autocating equipment, auto-cat items tagged as 'back' (as opposed to 'back item'), offhand or off-hand (as opposed to off-hand item) as 'bad equipment types'. I found a few of these, and they do make searching for new equipment harder.
    3. Separate out Combat Initiative to that page and Combat Initiative Modifiers, as well as Monster Level and Monster Level Modifiers.
      • (Actually, I could probably do this one myself.)-Foggy (talk) 20:38, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
    4. Change HP Increasers and MP Increasers to HP Modifiers and MP Modifiers.
  • Things I plan to do:
    1. This is the big one, but for all effects on Modifier pages, swap source and effect. As an example, for Fruited, the left-hand column would list flat cider and unidentifiable dried fruit, wiith the right-hand column giving the effect Fruited. My rationale is that it's easier to separate out 3 sources of the same thing (or more, as is the case with Cowrruption), and it's easier to find the source of the effect in your inventory or elsewhere. Knowing Joyful Resolve does what it does is helpful, but it makes more sense that I know resolution: be happier is how I get it.
    2. Move Food, Spleen, and Booze cost (fullness, spleen, drunkenness) to a parenthetical after the type (e.g., Food (3), Spleen (1), Booze (2)). This is a little obtuse, but cost is a weird column altogether, and I'd actually like to get right of it altogether.
    3. Get rid of cost. See above. I think consumable size can be a parenthetical after source type; items that are not lost can be noted in Notes, and effects with daily limitations can also be noted.
    4. Removing MOST links from the right-hand column. The biggest impedient I've had to adding new items is trying to remember how X should be formatted for linking purposes. This becomes especially hard with bonus elemental damage and resistance. It doesn't help that most of the Modifier pages have different ways of referring to themselves. (see above). It's not overly helpful to have that many links on the right, given that on Modifier pages, those links appear at the bottom. Exceptins would be Outfit names and Effect names if the above is done.
    5. Adding a Path column. As many items now are restricted to use in a specific path (including Bat-fellow and Spelunky), I'd like to have a column dedicated for that. In addition, this column would also include Non-Standard as an option to help flag items that are no longer in standard.
    6. Removing custom items from Modifier pages (but not Equipment pages). test case really drove this point home to me. it's an item that has some ridiculously oversized enchantments that would make it first on each page it applied to. But it's not very helpful to know about...none of us are Jick (unless Jick is reading this, in that case, hi Jick). I don't care if the Stupid university diploma is a soruce of HP and MP, I can't use it.

This is a lot, and I thank you for your time.-Foggy (talk) 14:25, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Stalking the Powers that Be integration

Hey guys, we're working on phasing out the Joomla landing page at KoL Coldfront and integrating everything into the wiki proper (a lot of this is already done, a long time ago - like how Uncle Scottmaley's Amazing Webcomic is on the left-hand menu.) The last thing that needs to be done is the dev tracker RSS. I'll hand it off to Mag here to explain what he's looking for:

I created an extension that's now included in the kol wiki called devtracker (it can be called with <.devtracker><./devtracker>) and it poops out plain HTML with the dev forum post links.

However I have no idea how to neatly get this into the header/wiki's main page in proper formatting. Can you guys take a look to add this to the main wiki page on a nice location?

Can anybody handle this and make it all pretty? What are your thoughts on the best way to move this feature? Thanks!--Nightvol (talk) 15:52, 4 January 2017 (UTC)


I did it! Basically I stared at it for a hour and then just did what Clump suggested and copied the Collections extension. Everybody please check out MediaWiki:Common.css and fiddle with the #devRSSFooBar bits at the bottom. Tag usage is the same:

<devtracker></devtracker>

gives:

Hotstuff: This was actually a quite widespread typo (I blame Riff!).
Hotstuff: That was a bug, which I finally tracked down and squashed! Sorry it took so long.
Jick: Packing Up the Rest of Your Stuff on the Last Day at Your Old Apartment
Jick: Pending, might not appear at all!
Hotstuff: I need to make a list of things to do once we ship West of Loathing, cause this sounds like it should go on it...

Having Magpie installed already helped out a bunch.--caseyweederman (talk) 17:23, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

  • Works great, thanks! I did fiddle with the style a bit, to make it more consistent with other front-page things. --Fig bucket (talk) 19:46, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
  • Dunno if it really needs to say "Collection data courtesy of ePeterso2 and Jicken Wings and Casey Weederman and you were there and you were there" at the bottom though :P --JRSiebz (|§|) 05:57, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
  •  :D It's gone. --caseyweederman (talk) 14:10, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Registration

I'm aware there's a spambot problem, but I have just discovered today that the solution is so intimidating to new users that they flee in horror. Seriously. I just saw our current registration form today and it made me want to flee in horror. picture of registration It actually asks for a resume. Even as a joke that is unpleasant. Discussion on Forum, mixed up with IotM thread. If I had seen that registration form when I signed up ages ago I might not have ever made an edit to this wiki.

Obviously I'm not going to suggest that spam protections be removed, but could we at least remove the resume nonsense and remove the request for the user's real name. On the subsequent page there's actually a confirmation checkbox stating, "The name I have specified under "Real name" is in fact my own real name." Just so the user has another chance to chicken out of registration. Heavy handed?

A final note is that apparently the biography is the only item used to determine if registration is allowed and the determining factor is if KoL is mentioned there. Unfortunately there isn't even the slightest clue that such a mention is necessary. There isn't a clue that the user should say anything of significance there and he might feel lazy that day. Could you at least add a sentence stating that the user should say in that box why he wants to edit the wiki? I'm sure that keeps out spambots since many valid users fail the test as well. I've heard from people claiming that the wiki won't allow them to sign up. I believe them now. --Bale (talk) 07:38, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

  • There was a time when a lot of weird named accounts signed up over a long period a time, and they stayed dormant, so nobody really cared. But them a few of them stated waking up and spamming. But that page is excessive. I think those are just the default settings for that extension though. The only that that I ever look for is a confirmed email address and hopefully a KoL player name or number in the bio somewhere. Really nothing else there is needed, except the "you are not a bot" question and I guess the "I agree" checkbox.. We don't need to ask for real name and especially not a resume. Maybe change Real Name to KoL Player Name/Number and "include relevance credentials" changed "include something you like about KoL" or something. And the Other Information section could be nuked entirely. According to MW:Extension:ConfirmAccount stuff can be removed, for example: 'AreasOfInterest' => array( 'enabled' => false ), 'CV' => array( 'enabled' => false ), 'Notes' => array( 'enabled' => false ), 'Links' => array( 'enabled' => false ), etc. That requires access to LocalSettings.php. I don't see requestaccount-text, requestaccount-notes, requestaccount-ext-text, nor requestaccount-acc-text anywhere in Special:AllMessages or we could edit them now. So yeah, this needs to b e updated. I guess in a perfect world you would give your KoL name and a WikiBot would kmail you in game with a confirmation code to enter or something, but a 24/7 bot seems a little excessive. ;) --JRSiebz (|§|) 12:37, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
    • Changing LocalSettings.php is needed to cut it down to a more reasonable set of fields, but the message texts actually are possible to change, even if for some odd reason they do not show up in searches. To see the actual message ids in a page, even a special page, add "?uselang=qqx" to the url. Once you see what they are you can then look at and edit them, e.g., like so. --Fig bucket (talk) 16:31, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
  • It's probably not great that Terms of Service is a redlink either. *sigh* --JRSiebz (|§|) 12:39, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
  • It is done. I'm not happy with how many people paste Lorem Ipsum into the bio, but I think the bio as a required field is important. As for that bot, it wouldn't have to be 24/7, we sure don't check applications that often. Even if it only checked every twelve hours it would be an improvement, and way harder to fake. Oh, the uselang to use is qqx, not qxx. The extension prints the default text if those pages are not found to exist, which is another reason they're not coming up in searches, they aren't there yet.--caseyweederman (talk) 19:35, 10 January 2017 (UTC)